Be careful out there

[Pierre C Belarge]

If this happened working on a troffer in a corporate office, I'd agree. But streetlights are worked on live all the time, and it's pretty common to trick the photocells to ensure the repair/replacement will work come nightfall. Do you think you can kill power to work on a traffic signal? You cannot, no matter what OSHA says.

I see traffic lights turned off for repair in many instances. They have a traffic controller (usually police, even though I have seen flagmen), controlling the traffic.

I have a situation now where the contractor is working a string of street lights, and he asked me to assist him in getting the POCO to turn the power off to the string for him to service them. They will have an appointment next week.

It can be done if the people involved are motivated to do something.

 

[Minuteman]

I lived in the Western part of Oklahoma back in the mid 90's, and the company I worked for had the contract to take care of the lights on I-40. There was a breaker in the hand hole that was 480v to Ground (not 277v) with a S.O. cord and plug connection underneath. We would turn off the breaker, unplug the cord, plugged in a small transformer with a connection for a hand held motor that drove the cable to lower and raise the fixture carriage, and turned back on the breaker. The motor had like a 25' cord on it, so you could step back while the carriage moved.

While in the up position, you raised it up a little, the "tripper" flags sprang in (indicating the break was released) and you lowered the carriage. As the carriage crawled down it often turned (like a corkscrew) so we energized the fixtures, so as to see which ones were not working. (Many were shot out). After all repairs were made, the carriage was raised until the "trippers" sprang back out, then lowered just a little, to reset the break.

These light towers were installed around the mid 70's

 

[Minuteman]

To the family of the man in the aforementioned post:

When I came in late last night and made the above post, I felt sorrow and compassion for the all grieving family and friends of this man who died a needless death, but I failed to offer any words of remorse or offer an condolences. I am truly sorry. Sorry for this loss, and sorry for what would appear as callousness on my part. May the Grace of Almighty God be with you in your time of grief.

 

[peter d]

I've said this before when these accidents happen, and I'll say it again because it bears repeating.

As long as electricians (and others) work on live equipment, needless accidents like these will continue to happen. No one in this industry other than linemen have to work live, and you can always refuse to work live. To me, it boils down to what's important. Is your job more important than your life, your safety and your family's well being?

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

I've said this before when these accidents happen, and I'll say it again because it bears repeating.

As long as electricians (and others) work on live equipment, needless accidents like these will continue to happen. No one in this industry other than linemen have to work live, and you can always refuse to work live. To me, it boils down to what's important. Is your job more important than your life, your safety and your family's well being?

That's very nice Peter. If everyone took the high road and refused to ever work live, we would have nothing live to work on and no electricity would ever flow, anywhere.

In the real world, sometimes working live is necessary. I know that goes against the simple one-size-fits-all solution to electrical deaths, but the reality is if everyone refused to do it, they would be replaced until you're back at square one again with everyone working live all the time.

There are methods to working live that greatly diminish the risk. But no matter what, you cannot eliminate ALL risk.

 

[peter d]

That's very nice Peter. If everyone took the high road and refused to ever work live, we would have nothing live to work on and no electricity would ever flow, anywhere.

Yeah, imagine that, people would stop dying or getting horribly burned. What a terrible thing to want. :roll:

 

[peter d]

In the real world, sometimes working live is necessary.

Yes, for linemen, and what OSHA allows. Most live work is not necessary and is only done for economic reasons.

 

[iwire]

know that goes against the simple one-size-fits-all solution to electrical deaths,

That is what someone says just to sound more knowledgeable. :grin:

It really does not add to your argument.

but the reality is if everyone refused to do it, they would be replaced until you're back at square one again with everyone working live all the time.

Really?

I see that as strictly an opinion, not a fact.

There are methods to working live that greatly diminish the risk. But no matter what, you cannot eliminate ALL risk.

I agree, we can not eliminate all risk but we are talking street lights here, not the cooling system to a nuclear reactor.

They are ways to shut almost any circuit down.


For what it's worth, if these site poles happen to be under the scope of the NEC they are required to have a disconnecting means

It just happens the NEC allows the disconnecting means to be located elsewhere on the property.

See Exception 3 of 225.32

 

[Ken 6789]

how did he get shocked, did he actually stick his fingers in the socket? was there no egc?

 

[Ken9876]

I work for the NJ DOT, If I'm working on something, it will get shut off, as stated before, some work needs to be done hot, but with the right ppe. There is no reason to work street lighting hot, this accident is very sad. Traffic signals are shut down around here often for repairs, replacements and modifications. We call the police have them control traffic, and get our work done safely.

 

[SiddMartin]

That is sad, I think we can assume.

He did this many times before.

He never thought it would happen to him.

The work did not have to be done live.

This is a very good point, he prolly has done this many many times, and who knows, maybe the unexpected happened. If he was working it hot, he should had proper PPE to minimize the hazard.
Co. I work for just implmented wearing the Arc flash suit with the hood and hardhat/shield (when required), I had to tap into a 480v Panel, and b/c the cust. could not shut down, I wore the suit. Another older electrician came back the next day to replace a breaker in the same panel and I asked him if he wore the suit, he said that he wore the helmet/shield but not the mask and suit.... and said he's "careful" when working it hot. I reamed up one side and the other of him, could not believe he said that. It's the unexpected hazards or accidents that we do not plan on.

Turn it off. If not wear the proper PPE, it is not worth it.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

I agree, we can not eliminate all risk but we are talking street lights here, not the cooling system to a nuclear reactor.

They are ways to shut almost any circuit down.

OK you send out 25 men into a borough tonight and make 25 phonecalls to the POCO to kill power inside the M/H to each of those 25 streetlights. And each man will do 8-10 repairs tonight. And the men and the poco have to stay in synch because it has to be working when they leave...

...ain't happening. You MUST work live.

For what it's worth, if these site poles happen to be under the scope of the NEC they are required to have a disconnecting means

Unless it's on private property, it's not in the scope of the NEC.

It just happens the NEC allows the disconnecting means to be located elsewhere on the property.

See Exception 3 of 225.32

 

[76nemo]

Some of us are required to go in hot. What kills me is some of the lack here and everywhere on proper PPE. If you know what you are doing and have the right gear/PPE, than the risks are in your hands.

 

[Minuteman]

What kills me is... the risks are in your hands.

You said it.

 

[LarryFine]

. . . than the risks are in your hands.

The idea is to keep those hands.

 

[steveng]

an ec's, jm replaced a 50a 480v 3ph brkr today for us, he did not suit up, i asked why, he said ,he was comfortable working hot, i watched and stayed back, the main brkr in the panel was a molded case 1000a and could have been turned off if he would have asked, he said he did not want to kill the power to the bldg, i told him we could ,the bldg is not occupied during this time.

he is highly skilled jm with 20 yrs of experience, but still, i would not have done the job hot.
that's why we called him.

i priced some ppe from a switchgear testing co. 1775.00 for cat4,
is this price reasonable?

 

[jrannis]

Looking back, I done some pretty stupid things like
drilling into a hot bus bar with a double insulated electric drill, bare handed, making up eight or so sets of parallel conductors onto a hot 120/208 volt bus bar, bare handed.
Then again four sets of conductors on a 277/480 volt bus, no PPE either.
I do remember taping cardboard over the cabinet.

Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. I can believe I did that.

 

[zog]

I agree, we can not eliminate all risk but we are talking street lights here, not the cooling system to a nuclear reactor.

We dont work those hot either.

 

[zog]

OK you send out 25 men into a borough tonight and make 25 phonecalls to the POCO to kill power inside the M/H to each of those 25 streetlights. And each man will do 8-10 repairs tonight. And the men and the poco have to stay in synch because it has to be working when they leave...

...ain't happening. You MUST work live.

Bull, we do coordinated shutdowns with the POCO's nearly every day. Problem is there is a charge from the POCO and some companies would rather endanger the lives of thier employees than pay for an outage.

 

[billsnuff]

this is just so wrong

this is just so wrong

an ec's, jm replaced a 50a 480v 3ph brkr today for us, he did not suit up, i asked why, he said ,he was comfortable working hot, i watched and stayed back, the main brkr in the panel was a molded case 1000a and could have been turned off if he would have asked, he said he did not want to kill the power to the bldg, i told him we could ,the bldg is not occupied during this time.

complacency kills too. JMSO