BEC Electrical Violation

[Alwayslearningelec]

The inspector gave us a violation regarding NEC article 250.146.148. We used MC cable and he said the MC was not bonded to the boxes. I guess the green wire to the 10/24 screw on the box. We did use self grounding receptacles. Is this our out? Do this suffice and in fact bond the box? If not then we have to go back and pigtail ALL these outlets.

Thanks.

 

[TOOL_5150]

You HAVE to bond the boxes, when you use self grounding recepts, you dont have to pigtail from the box to the device - I dont believe it works the other way around.

~Matt

 

[infinity]

The inspector is correct. The bonding of the box cannot depend on the device.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

The inspector was not aware we used slef grounding receptacles.

 

[augie47]

the type receptacle would not matter as far as grounding the box is concerned.
250.148 Continuity and Attachment of Equipment Grounding Conductors to Boxes.
Where circuit conductors are spliced within a box, or terminated on equipment within or supported by a box, any equipment grounding conductor(s) associated with those circuit conductors shall be connected within the box or to the box with devices suitable for the use in accordance with 250.148(A) through (E).

 

[LJSMITH1]

the type receptacle would not matter as far as grounding the box is concerned.
250.148 Continuity and Attachment of Equipment Grounding Conductors to Boxes.
Where circuit conductors are spliced within a box, or terminated on equipment within or supported by a box, any equipment grounding conductor(s) associated with those circuit conductors shall be connected within the box or to the box with devices suitable for the use in accordance with 250.148(A) through (E).

This could be considered an isolated ground system 250.146(D). My interpretation is that when a device with a listed, spring-type grounding strap on the yoke is used, a bonding jumper is not required between the box and the device see 250.146(B) - If the EG lands on the box first or the receptacle first is not specified. However, if the device is cover mounted (i.e. a 4" sq. quad), there is a bonding jumper required from the box/device to the equipment ground.

250.148 also has an exception "The equipment grounding conductor permitted in 250.146(D) shall not be required to be connected to the other equipment grounding conductors or to the box"

 

[augie47]

I believe the OP was questioning the ground connection to the box, and 250.148 requires that regardless of the device being installed (with the exception of isolated ground receptacles, which were not mentioned)
In addition, wording has been added to 250.146 which seems to remove the "pigtail" requirement with 4" sq. covers under conditions.
I can see no exception to connecting the equipemt ground to the box.

 

[cdslotz]

 

[infinity]

I see nothing about IG's in the OP. He used plain old MC cable and didn't ground the boxes using a 10-32 screw into the box or a listed grounding clip. Now he wants to say that since he used a self-grounding device the box is grounded. The EGC must attach to the box. If a self-grounding device is used then there is no need for a bonding jumper to the box.
Unfortunately for him it looks like he'll be adding grounding tails to all of the boxes.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

BEC, I am assuming you are in NYC.

The NEC does require the equipment ground conductor to be installed to the box/enclosure, not relying on the device as the means.

MC cable, the sheathing is not listed as a means of grounding, so the EGC will have to be bonded to the box.

I hope you do not have too many of these, and I hope he caught this before you mounted your devices...

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

We have about 150-200 of them because I would assume it peratains to switches as well. I thought grounding and bonding were two different things. Thanks Pierre.

 

[growler]

I hope you do not have too many of these, and I hope he caught this before you mounted your devices...

Why? I understand that Horsegoer may not understand that the boxes need to be bonded but the work should have been done by electricians and they should have known better.

Where were the electricians when this mistake happened? It's not like this is a new requirement. Do they still have a jobs?

 

[480sparky]

Why? I understand that Horsegoer may not understand that the boxes need to be bonded but the work should have been done by electricians and they should have known better.

Where were the electricians when this mistake happened? It's not like this is a new requirement. Do they still have a jobs?

Not every electrician 1.) knows this Code and 2.) they do it exactly how the person signing their paycheck tells them to, whether it's right or wrong.

 

[growler]

Not every electrician 1.) knows this Code and 2.) they do it exactly how the person signing their paycheck tells them to, whether it's right or wrong.

Most electricians in the field are not working under the direct supervision of the person that signs their checks, they normally work under the supervision of a lead man or foreman and it is the leadman or foreman's job to know the codes.

If he doesn't know the code then give him back his shovel and this will motivate him.

 

[480sparky]

Most electricians in the field are not working under the direct supervision of the person that signs their checks, they normally work under the supervision of a lead man or foreman and it is the leadman or foreman's job to know the codes.

If he doesn't know the code then give him back his shovel and this will motivate him.

And in some cases, the foreman is directed to 'do it this way'. Right or wrong, that's the way it gets done.

 

[chris kennedy]

If he doesn't know the code then give him back his shovel and this will motivate him.

Hey now, I have a somewhat decent grasp on the NEC and a better grasp on my shovel.

 

[daleuger]

Hey now, I have a somewhat decent grasp on the NEC and a better grasp on my shovel.

Thought that's what Al was for?

 

[growler]

Hey now, I have a somewhat decent grasp on the NEC and a better grasp on my shovel.

Yes but did you have such a decent grasp of the NEC before they gave you a shovel or does this method really work?

I like to think of ditch digging as "scared smart". Insteady of taking young kids to see prisoners lolly gaging around all day in prison they should send them out to a construction site and scare the B'Jesus out of them when they find out what really happens when you don't do your homework.

 

[hillbilly1]

The reasoning behind bonding or grounding the box seperately, is if the device is removed, then continuity could be lost to the box.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

This is a NYCity location.
I have been told many times, by many different people that there is a general misunderstanding about the proper use of MC cable as it pertains to the sheathing being suitable as an EGC.