Does each bedroom in a dwelling require its own afci circuit? A recent inspector red tagged a new home rough-in because there were more than 10 devices on one of the afci circuits. There were two afci ciciuts pulled in the house, one for the master bedroom and one for two smaller bedrooms in the other end of the house.
bedroom circuits
- Thread starter edwin1
- Start date
- Status
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: bedroom circuits
Only if it is a local code.
Only if it is a local code.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: bedroom circuits
I learned a cute trick from a residential contractor.He uses 1 afci for the smokes and ceiling fans and fixed lights,and the other for all the bedroom receptacles.Takes 1 home run from the nearest smoke the other from closest receptacle.Helps if the fault is from homeowners plugged in stuff,just unplug everything,if it resets then its there problem.Nothing in NEC even calls for 2 afci one meets code
I learned a cute trick from a residential contractor.He uses 1 afci for the smokes and ceiling fans and fixed lights,and the other for all the bedroom receptacles.Takes 1 home run from the nearest smoke the other from closest receptacle.Helps if the fault is from homeowners plugged in stuff,just unplug everything,if it resets then its there problem.Nothing in NEC even calls for 2 afci one meets code
Re: bedroom circuits
This may draw some flack but here goes anyway
Take as an example, in a residential application, Using ten 15 amp circuits from the same panel to supply general purpose outlets in a 3,000 sq. ft. area. That would average out to aproximately 300 sq. ft. per circuit. Now, if you use one of those circuits, protected with an AFCI breaker to supply a 600 sq. ft. bedroom, you would be in violation of 210.11(B).
Am I wrong?
This may draw some flack but here goes anyway
Take as an example, in a residential application, Using ten 15 amp circuits from the same panel to supply general purpose outlets in a 3,000 sq. ft. area. That would average out to aproximately 300 sq. ft. per circuit. Now, if you use one of those circuits, protected with an AFCI breaker to supply a 600 sq. ft. bedroom, you would be in violation of 210.11(B).
Am I wrong?
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: bedroom circuits
I think that this is not a violation of 210.11(B). Here is how I see it:
</font>
I think that this is not a violation of 210.11(B). Here is how I see it:
</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your total load for this set of general purpose loads is 3000 x 3 = 9000 VA</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You supply a 600 square foot bedroom with one circuit. That is worth 3 x 600 = 1800 VA.</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That leaves 9 circuits to supply the remaining 7,200 VA, giving each an average of 800 VA.</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The total load on Phase A (presuming it is the one with the big bedroom) is 1800 + 4 x 800 = 5000 VA. This is equivalent to 33 amps.</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The total load on Phase B is 5 x 800 = 4000 VA. This is equivalent to 42 amps.</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This amount of difference in the current in the two Phases (i.e., 9 amps) is not significant. If, for example, the loads are perfectly balanced at one moment in time, and if at that moment your wife turns on an 1200 watt hair dryer, then the current in the phase that powers that hair dryer will exceed the current in the other phase by more than 9 amps.</font>
Re: bedroom circuits
Well, I agree that it is not the intent that "evenly proportioned" be measured to a minute degree of precision. I agree that a reasonable attempt to balance the load is all that is expected. And this requirement is not something that I would put on my list of things to check for when doing inspections.
However,
[ August 26, 2004, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: eprice ]
Well, I agree that it is not the intent that "evenly proportioned" be measured to a minute degree of precision. I agree that a reasonable attempt to balance the load is all that is expected. And this requirement is not something that I would put on my list of things to check for when doing inspections.
However,
If, in an effort to cut down on the number of AFCI breakers used, one circuit is serving significanly more area than other circuits, then a reasonable effort has not been made to comply with the principle of this section. I guess it is a judgement call as to what constitues significantly more area. Double the average? Triple? I'm not sure. The only reason I bring this up is that there seems to be a notion that you could put all of the bedrooms on one circuit, regardless of their area, and still be in compliance with the NEC. I think you could run into trouble with this section in doing that.
[ August 26, 2004, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: eprice ]
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: bedroom circuits
I agree. For my part, I have not designed a residential building. But if I did, I would use the same type of spreadsheet panel schedule as a design tool. After I enter all the loads, and the KVA of each, the spreadsheet gives me the NEC load calculation, and tells me how nearly balanced the phase loads are. If I don?t like the balance, I will shift loads around until I do.
But we need to keep in mind the real-world fact that the day-to-day operation of the facility is beyond our control. When the owner turns this on, and that off, the phase balance changes.
I agree. For my part, I have not designed a residential building. But if I did, I would use the same type of spreadsheet panel schedule as a design tool. After I enter all the loads, and the KVA of each, the spreadsheet gives me the NEC load calculation, and tells me how nearly balanced the phase loads are. If I don?t like the balance, I will shift loads around until I do.
But we need to keep in mind the real-world fact that the day-to-day operation of the facility is beyond our control. When the owner turns this on, and that off, the phase balance changes.
Re: bedroom circuits
Read the comments and I may of missed somthing in the articles.....Im assuming this is residential Receptacle Outlets.
2002 nec....
Except as covered in 220.3(B)(10), receptacle outlets shall be computed at not less than 180 volt-amperes for each single or for each multiple receptacle on one yoke. A single piece of equipment consisting of a multiple receptacle comprised of four or more receptacles shall be computed at not less than 90 volt-amperes per receptacle.
This provision shall not be applicable to the receptacle outlets specified in 210.11(C)(1) and (2
Read the comments and I may of missed somthing in the articles.....Im assuming this is residential Receptacle Outlets.
2002 nec....
Except as covered in 220.3(B)(10), receptacle outlets shall be computed at not less than 180 volt-amperes for each single or for each multiple receptacle on one yoke. A single piece of equipment consisting of a multiple receptacle comprised of four or more receptacles shall be computed at not less than 90 volt-amperes per receptacle.
This provision shall not be applicable to the receptacle outlets specified in 210.11(C)(1) and (2
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: bedroom circuits
heco Welcome to the forum.
IMO, 220.3(B)(9) is not applcable to dwelling units, 220.3(B)(10) is the section we need to look at for dwelling unit outlets.
[ September 22, 2004, 04:21 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
heco Welcome to the forum.
IMO, 220.3(B)(9) is not applcable to dwelling units, 220.3(B)(10) is the section we need to look at for dwelling unit outlets.
[ September 22, 2004, 04:21 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
- Status