below the NEC or UL radar

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Lxnxjxhx

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If I make a gadget to interface, eventually, with household electric power, is there some power level or voltage level that is so low that the NEC or UL doesn't care?

For instance, if I would power this homemade device from a wall transformer, like they use to charge cell phones?
Or if I powered it from two 9v batteries?
Or if I make my own time delay electronics and put in it an oversize metal junction box, to control a vent fan?

Thanks; any comments will be helpful here.
 
this thread will probably be closed because this is not a diy website, but you might want to buy a hobbyist power supply from radio shack or a multi purpose class 2 transformer with adapters that will fit most anything. once you are on the "safe" side of these devices you are usually ok (if you are experimenting you might want to get a power supply with a built in fuse)

good luck
 
langjahr@comcast.net said:
If I make a gadget to interface, eventually, with household electric power, is there some power level or voltage level that is so low that the NEC or UL doesn't care?

For instance, if I would power this homemade device from a wall transformer, like they use to charge cell phones?
Or if I powered it from two 9v batteries?
Or if I make my own time delay electronics and put in it an oversize metal junction box, to control a vent fan?

Thanks; any comments will be helpful here.
Click to expand...

In America (so far) people are still allowed to do almost any stupid thing to themselves.
Where the authorities get into the mix is when your action impacts others.
(Well, thats the theory anyway.)

As regards your gadget that somehow uses electricity, unless you were selling it to others (UL) or installing it for others (NEC) I don't believe that UL or NFPA has any domain over anything related to it.
 
Good.

To paraphrase, a UL-approved relay switches household AC, but no one cares who made the electronics that drives the low power coil of that relay as long as I don't sell or install this device (which includes the UL rated relay).
If I do sell or install this UL/non-UL composite device, I need approval of UL or NEC.
 
langjahr@comcast.net said:
Good.
If I do sell or install this UL/non-UL composite device, I need approval of UL or NEC.
Click to expand...

Neither the NEC nor UL approves anything.

UL standards are a basic guideline and having a product "listed" by a testing lab in compliance with a UL standard will go a long way towards the product being successfull.

Roger
 
The NFPA nor UL cares about anything you make or create. The feds, state and local governments regulate product materials and manufacturing, distribution, and sales.

The local AHJ only regulates that which is under the scope of adopted codes and stanards.

In order to have a product that meets the installation requirements of the NEC, it may need to be listed with a NRTL in order for the AHJ to approve it. In order the NRTL to list the product, it must be tested per a minimum standard for the category the product is included and and for the conditions of use.
 
Here's what UL said. . .

Here's what UL said. . .

Products in the US are not required to have UL or another Safety approval. Getting a UL Mark would be up to you. The market place in various ways determines if something "needs" UL approval. Most battery operated products (including automotive) do not carry the UL Mark. Some chose to get them Marked, but most don't. The primary reasons for this are based on what drives companies to get a UL Mark. They are basically as follows:

1. Consumer - Many consumers will only purchase items that they can verified has been evaluated for safety.

2. Retailer - Many retailers will not sell a product without a Mark of Safety for liability reasons.

3. Authorities - Depending on the specific area and application an authority acting as a Building Inspector for example, will not sign off on a construction without all product being individually evaluated for safety.

4. Manufacturers - Many manufacturers will not sell products without a Safety Mark based on their own liability concerns.

5. Marketing - Some manufacturers chose to get a Safety Mark for nothing more than to marketed in that manner and have an advantage over their competition.

For products such as toys, radios and electronic gadgets you rarely see a Safety Mark unless it plugs into the wall. Chargers are a different story of course. The Authorities as outlined above could come into play based on your description.

So do you need approval? That will be up to you to answer in regards to the above reasons. The use of a 9V battery will obviously make the electric portion of the evaluation very easy as there would be no risk of shock or fire based on the available power levels.
 
Handy, that just goes to show you, an entity such as UL has to be long winded in their answers unlike the earlier concise posts in this thread:wink:

Roger
 
as electricians and engineers we all make gadgets and normally for money..so do you always have them meet them standards or some other standard..I do so I say yes you need to have them approved by someone even if it is the ahj..unless I am doing a DIY project then I deny any knowledge of the operation..
 
. . .eugene , Oregon. . .

. . .eugene , Oregon. . .

Nah, I've lived 10 miles north-northwest of the Mayflower for quite a while now.
Funny thing-when the wind was just right I could hear strange noises coming from that direction, and I wondered what it was ('til now)!
 
how they operate... (Gomezish)

how they operate... (Gomezish)

I don't think there is an accurate generic answer. UL measures against particular standards, 508, 891, 50, 486, 489 etc... the use of your product and it's overall design determine which standard should be applied. The spacing, voltage, current and construction of a device listed in one standard could be unsuitable for another standard.
 
megloff11x said:
If it burns down the house and lacks a sticker, the insurance company may tear up the check.

Matt
Click to expand...


Really? I find that very hard to believe.

Can you provide any reference for that?
 
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