e57
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
220/221 said:
True.... that....
bending question
- Thread starter toomunsch
- Start date
- Status
True.... that....
- Location
- Massachusetts
e57 said:
Yes you could have less then four quater bends.
By your read that would have to mean 1, 2, 3 or 4 quarter bends.
Last edited:
- Location
- Massachusetts
220/221 said:
Do you know anyone personally that is on a CMP?
Your way off base, the people chosen to be on the CMPs are not 'morons'.
There is nothing conflicting about the ceiling thread.
It's very easy if you try to understand it.
They don't want rubber cords used in concealed locations. It's really that simple.
e57
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
Which one? Does it bend the allowable radius' and is it also suitable for making hand rails? :smile:nakulak said:
e57 said:
A Greenlee tripe nickel with RGC will do a 180? no problem...
http://65.36.183.19/greenlee/im/IM1197REV19.pdf
Check page 13/46 ...mid-way, on the left, just above the picture of the pipe :grin:
e57
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
iwire said:
That is not how I read it....
I'm not sure if I have been absolutely clear on that since you dont seem to get how I read it."shall not be more than the equivalent of four quarter bends"
You can have more than 4 bends due to the word "equivalent"
And likewise, you can not have more than a 90, because it doesn't say 1/2 (180), or 3/4 (270) bends either. ..."equivalent" of 4 90's.
This is the way I learned it, and the people before them taught it to them etc. And I likewise have taught guys under me the same way.
'Count the 90's, and count up the equivalents'
An off-set - 30, 30 (< 90) = 60
Two box off-sets 10, 10, 10, 10 (<90) = 40
A 90 (=90) = 90
two 45's (both <90) = 90
Total 280 degrees of bend
The above typical example has 9 bends, none greater than 90, less than 360 total.
We all know that tight bends, close together are harder to pull. Any many are of the opinion that shepards hooks are bad practice for that reason. And even for those who think that you can bend over 90 - think that, that too is something to be avoided if you can. Why - because they are harder to pull. They lock and chatter - meaning they get so much tention that someone also needs to push it too - to release the tention and get the wire through.
For those who sail, or climb/rappel or those into knots know that turns of rope will not slide as much when past 90 degrees and often lock at 180 - and few knots have <360 degrees of turn to them. Most that do, are slip knots. Anyway, my point is that we are trying to reduce friction on the wire we pull, not create it.
e57
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
celtic said:
I stand corrected there is one shoe on a bender that can bend 180 as described in the notes for compensating spring back in a section titled 'Bending 90's'
Also don't see any instructions or multipliers for making any bend over 90....
Last edited:
- Location
- Massachusetts
Mark we are just going to have to remain in disagreement on this.
I also don't think we can figure out the intent of a code section based on the availability of a tool.
We still use hickeys with conduit and I could make what ever type of bend that suits me.
I also don't think we can figure out the intent of a code section based on the availability of a tool.
We still use hickeys with conduit and I could make what ever type of bend that suits me.
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Kilmarnock, Va
- Occupation
- Retired after 52 years in the trade.
E:
So you can have back to back 90's, where the second 90 starts where the first 90 ends?
Or you can have 4 90's where there is a 1/4" between the start and end of bends?
But you can not have two 90's that make a 180?
Each bend starts and end with the movement of the bender I would think.
How would you discern what is what?
So you can have back to back 90's, where the second 90 starts where the first 90 ends?
Or you can have 4 90's where there is a 1/4" between the start and end of bends?
But you can not have two 90's that make a 180?
Each bend starts and end with the movement of the bender I would think.
How would you discern what is what?
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
I don't think asking a stupid question, or doing something stupid makes someone a "moron."
In this case, that language has been in the NEC for a long, long time. I haven't looked, but I'd be willing to guess that no proposals have been submitted to amend the language to be more concise - without a proposal to change a section, then the section will usually remain unchanged from cycle to cycle.
The NEC is fueled by proposals, and those proposals are weighed by the CMP.
As much as they frustrate me with their omissions and apparent lack of reason when researching certain topics, I would not sink to calling the CMPs "morons." I don't know how many proposals you have sent in, or had passed, but writing code language is not super easy, there are usually two different ways to read almost any section in the NEC.
In this case, that language has been in the NEC for a long, long time. I haven't looked, but I'd be willing to guess that no proposals have been submitted to amend the language to be more concise - without a proposal to change a section, then the section will usually remain unchanged from cycle to cycle.
The NEC is fueled by proposals, and those proposals are weighed by the CMP.
As much as they frustrate me with their omissions and apparent lack of reason when researching certain topics, I would not sink to calling the CMPs "morons." I don't know how many proposals you have sent in, or had passed, but writing code language is not super easy, there are usually two different ways to read almost any section in the NEC.
Moron=a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.
That describes every person I have ever met at some time or another.
Ever run out of gas even though you know that your vehicle requires fuel to operate have an indicator telling you your tank is empty?
It's not THAT hard to write SOME code.
344.26 Bends — Number in One Run.
There shall not be more than the equivalent 360 degrees total between pull points, for example, conduit bodies and boxes.
OR
344.26 Bends — Number in One Run.
There shall not be more than the equivalent 360 degrees total between pull points, for example, conduit bodies and boxes. No individual bend shall exceed 90 degrees
Take your choice (I vote for the first one)
The solution is simple. Let a simple minded guy like me read it. If I can understand it, print it.
That describes every person I have ever met at some time or another.
Ever run out of gas even though you know that your vehicle requires fuel to operate have an indicator telling you your tank is empty?
.
It's not THAT hard to write SOME code.
344.26 Bends — Number in One Run.
There shall not be more than the equivalent 360 degrees total between pull points, for example, conduit bodies and boxes.
OR
344.26 Bends — Number in One Run.
There shall not be more than the equivalent 360 degrees total between pull points, for example, conduit bodies and boxes. No individual bend shall exceed 90 degrees
Take your choice (I vote for the first one)
The solution is simple. Let a simple minded guy like me read it. If I can understand it, print it.
Last edited:
Does anyone else here own a copy of "Mathematics of Conduit Systems Layout" by Donald A. Koepp ? It instructs how to make a gooseneck bend including the use of a 110? overbend. I realize this book is not the NEC but it is an instructional book for making common conduit bends encountered in the electrical trade. I don't see the gooseneck bend as a violation and have used it many times.
- Location
- Massachusetts
220/221 said:
Of course of I have done moronic things, that still does not mean I let people call me a moron.
Great, now put it in a proposal as the CMPs do not write the code. People who put in proposals write the code and the CMP can accept it, refuse it or modify it.
If I had to guess why it is written how it is I would say this.
It may have been written so long ago that tradesmen would be more likely to understand what four 'quarter bends' are instead of what 360 degrees means.
e57
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
220/221 said:
I'll vote for the second one.
The winner buys a case of lube for himself....
As opposed to the suggestion that the code writers are lacking, I think the fact that the differing interpretations to the verbiage in the code simply speaks to the fact that it is very difficult to write a simple and exact instruction that cannot be misinterpreted, especially in the litigious times in which we live. I think, quite contrarily, that it is amazing that the code is as precise as it is, in many respects.
- Status