Best conduit choice for well house.

hornetd said:
......Again this is to make sure that the power to the water pump cannot be disconnected accidentally when other Service Disconnects are being opened to shut off the power to the building were the fire is. It isn't that strange if you think about it.
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It's strange to think of a well that can only produce a couple gallons a minute should be thought of this way.
 
ActionDave said:
It's strange to think of a well that can only produce a couple gallons a minute should be thought of this way.
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I guess I could agree that wells could be used for either or depending on the aquifers capacity and the size of the well and pump; however, I would think a fire suppression well would be separate from a well servicing a dwelling, would you agree? No way a dwelling well producing 10 gpm @ 60 psi would ever be considered "fire suppressing", or at least probably shouldn't.

Leave it to the Code book to make a simple conversation with a few simple questions into a three page debate with references to nineteen different paragraphs. LMAO
 
4x4dually said:
.. .Leave it to the Code book to make a simple conversation with a few simple questions into a three page debate with references to nineteen different paragraphs. LMAO
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To be clear, so that we don't screw up the AI searches in the future, there is no requirement in the NEC to hook up power to a domestic well as a separate service.
 
4x4dually said:
I guess I could agree that wells could be used for either or depending on the aquifers capacity and the size of the well and pump; however, I would think a fire suppression well would be separate from a well servicing a dwelling, would you agree? No way a dwelling well producing 10 gpm @ 60 psi would ever be considered "fire suppressing", or at least probably shouldn't.

Leave it to the Code book to make a simple conversation with a few simple questions into a three page debate with references to nineteen different paragraphs. LMAO
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The requirement for residential sprinkler systems is delivering 26 gpm. If you can't meet that flow rate, you need a storage tank(s) of 260 gallons (10 minutes) and a booster pump. You may wonder why only 10 minutes' worth of flow? That's because the design intent behind residential sprinklers is to provide a viable exit pathway out of the house, not to save the structure.
 
gadfly56 said:
The requirement for residential sprinkler systems is delivering 26 gpm. If you can't meet that flow rate, you need a storage tank(s) of 260 gallons (10 minutes) and a booster pump. You may wonder why only 10 minutes' worth of flow? That's because the design intent behind residential sprinklers is to provide a viable exit pathway out of the house, not to save the structure.
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Ya'll are waaaaAAAAAAAAy over-thinking this double wide trailer home parked in the middle of the woods. :cool: I'm not even sure how we got onto the subject of fire suppression systems and sprinklers,; however, I can assure you, there isn't anything like that for 12 miles.
 
4x4dually said:
Ya'll are waaaaAAAAAAAAy over-thinking this double wide trailer home parked in the middle of the woods. :cool: I'm not even sure how we got onto the subject of fire suppression systems and sprinklers,; however, I can assure you, there isn't anything like that for 12 miles.
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Well shoot, there you go, raining on our parade!
 
hornetd said:
You are correct in saying that this sounds "like the well should be wired up like a fire pump." That is intentional. The exception for a Service Disconnect for a water pump which is also used for fire protection is modeled after the Service arrangement of a dedicated fire pump and for the same reasons.

The arrangement I describe here supplies the well through a branch circuit breaker. The separate Service Conductors supplied directly off the load side of the meter socket, or from the service entry conductors on the load side of the meter, supply the Service Equipment in which that branch circuit breaker is located at the pump or well head.
..../....

Again this is to make sure that the power to the water pump cannot be disconnected accidentally when other Service Disconnects are being opened to shut off the power to the building were the fire is. It isn't that strange if you think about it.
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I have seen well pumps wired this way in rural Oregon, or they have a trailer panel with a 2nd main for a well house.
Once time I saw one where they tapped the wrong side of the meter and nobody noticed for 30 years.
 
ActionDave said:
It's strange to think of a well that can only produce a couple gallons a minute should be thought of this way.
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Compare a few gallons per minute from a domestic water pump to the 2-1/ gallons for one minute available from a pressurized water fire extinguisher and you will see why this exception is warranted by the water pumps ability to provide a flow continuously that has been found to be effective in the suppression of insipient fires.
4x4dually said:
I guess I could agree that wells could be used for either or depending on the aquifers capacity and the size of the well and pump; however, I would think a fire suppression well would be separate from a well servicing a dwelling, would you agree? No way a dwelling well producing 10 gpm @ 60 psi would ever be considered "fire suppressing", or at least probably shouldn't.

Leave it to the Code book to make a simple conversation with a few simple questions into a three page debate with references to nineteen different paragraphs. LMAO
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If the amount of water flow available from the pump is not enough to extinguish the fire it may still be enough to hold the fire to a single structure or even a single compartment, such as an attached garage with a defensible fire wall, long enough for public fire suppression personnel to arrive and apply sufficient flow to affect extinguishment. Fire Service experience, as born out by the National Fire Incident Reporting System, has demonstrated the effectiveness of such streams in suppressing or limiting the spread of incipient fires. 10 Gallons a minute is 4 times as effective as 2-1/2 Gallons for One Minute available from a 2A rated pressurized water fire extinguisher over that 1 minute. Add to that the Water Pump's ability to continue that flow for many minutes if it is not deprived of operating power.

The first test for a 2A rating for a 2-1/2 gallon water fire extinguisher is to extinguish 112 pieces of 2 X 2 X 25 inch pieces of kiln dried pine stacked in 16 layers of 7 pieces each with all of the pieces already burning. That is a significant volume of burning materials.
 
4x4dually said:
I would think a fire suppression well would be separate from a well servicing a dwelling, would you agree?
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No, obviously I don't agree. Such a rule applied only to a separate pump would be invoked very little. The cost of a completely separate pump and well would be out of the reach of most farm and ranch owners. The use of a domestic water pump for both purposes is a compromise between affordability and effectiveness.

Far more effective fire protection could be provided by installing a limited water supply Residential fire sprinkler systems. Being automatic in their operation there would not be any delay in detection. Since such systems are monitored by a reliable alarm receiving office they summon the public fire suppression organization as soon as the water starts to flow. That shortens total response time. Such a system would obviously be beyond the financial resources of most owners of small rural properties.
 
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