Best method to replace a 4" ceiling box from below?

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tx2step

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North Texas, DFW area
I've mainly done commercial and industrial work before, but am starting to do some residential now, too. A few days ago I was replacing a ceiling light fixture with a ceiling fan. This was on the first floor of a 2 story house, so no access from above - only from below. It was a textured sheetrock ceiling. The existing ceiling box was a 4" round brown plastic box (with only 8-32 screws) that was nailed to the ceiling joist with 2 nails outside the box (the standard type, with the molded supports/nails outside the box at about 45 deg. to the box). I had a hard time getting the existing box out of the ceiling from below -- I finally clipped the box apart using my diagonal cutters (dikes) a piece at a time until I could get to the nails. There must be an easier way!!! How do you guys do it??? I'm sure I'll run into this situation a lot, and I want to make a much easier job of it in the future!!!

After I finally got the existing box out, I installed (from below) one of the steel fan boxes (with 10-32 screws) with the screw-out type bar hanger that extends to "bite" into the wood joists on each side. It seemed pretty solid. I think it was a Steel City model, but I'm not sure about that. Is there something better and easier to use?

Thanks for the help!!!
 
I do quite a bit of service calls like this one and I use the cork screw type you referred to and I have never had a problem. Also if the new fan top cover is big enough I have cut another 2" of drywall to get right under the wood and use a pancake box with a few screws into the wood and the fan cover covers the old hole. You should always fill it though with 5 min mud or something.

all in all cork screws are good
 
tx2step said:
I've mainly done commercial and industrial work before, but am starting to do some residential now, too. A few days ago I was replacing a ceiling light fixture with a ceiling fan. This was on the first floor of a 2 story house, so no access from above - only from below. It was a textured sheetrock ceiling. The existing ceiling box was a 4" round brown plastic box (with only 8-32 screws) that was nailed to the ceiling joist with 2 nails outside the box (the standard type, with the molded supports/nails outside the box at about 45 deg. to the box). I had a hard time getting the existing box out of the ceiling from below -- I finally clipped the box apart using my diagonal cutters (dikes) a piece at a time until I could get to the nails. There must be an easier way!!! How do you guys do it??? I'm sure I'll run into this situation a lot, and I want to make a much easier job of it in the future!!!

After I finally got the existing box out, I installed (from below) one of the steel fan boxes (with 10-32 screws) with the screw-out type bar hanger that extends to "bite" into the wood joists on each side. It seemed pretty solid. I think it was a Steel City model, but I'm not sure about that. Is there something better and easier to use?

Thanks for the help!!!
Click to expand...

you've pretty much got it.
beat the old one out with a screwdriver and dykes.
pull out the nails.
screw in a spreader bar with box.
rister came out with them a long time ago,
and now there are cheap knockoffs. the rister was
well made.
 
tx2step said:
I had a hard time getting the existing box out of the ceiling from below -- I finally clipped the box apart using my diagonal cutters (dikes) a piece at a time until I could get to the nails.

After I finally got the existing box out, I installed (from below) one of the steel fan boxes (with 10-32 screws) with the screw-out type bar hanger that extends to "bite" into the wood joists on each side. It seemed pretty solid. I think it was a Steel City model, but I'm not sure about that. Is there something better and easier to use?

Thanks for the help!!!
Click to expand...


I normally use my straight (yellow) tin snips to cut the box apart a piece at a time.

The old works fan box I normally get are made by westinghouse. I think they are pretty much all the same.

The idea on residential is not to do any damage to existing paint or ceiling so if it takes longer you just charge for the extra time.
 
tx2step, I think you have the procedure mastered. Yes cut apart with your dykes, Linemans, hammer, big screwdriver the old box. Then you did just as I have done, install the adjustable fan bracket. Steel City & Reiker both have a version. There isn't really any short cut. If you need a 14-3 Romex at the box, take up the carpet above & cut the sub floor
 
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Strombea said:
I do quite a bit of service calls like this one and I use the cork screw type you referred to and I have never had a problem. Also if the new fan top cover is big enough I have cut another 2" of drywall to get right under the wood and use a pancake box with a few screws into the wood and the fan cover covers the old hole.
Click to expand...


If needed a medalion covers a lot of mistakes. I have taken a light fixture down and all the sheetrock around the box was falling apart.
 
tx2step said:
I've mainly done commercial and industrial work before, but am starting to do some residential now, too. A few days ago I was replacing a ceiling light fixture with a ceiling fan. This was on the first floor of a 2 story house, so no access from above - only from below. It was a textured sheetrock ceiling. The existing ceiling box was a 4" round brown plastic box (with only 8-32 screws) that was nailed to the ceiling joist with 2 nails outside the box (the standard type, with the molded supports/nails outside the box at about 45 deg. to the box). I had a hard time getting the existing box out of the ceiling from below -- I finally clipped the box apart using my diagonal cutters (dikes) a piece at a time until I could get to the nails. There must be an easier way!!! How do you guys do it??? I'm sure I'll run into this situation a lot, and I want to make a much easier job of it in the future!!!

After I finally got the existing box out, I installed (from below) one of the steel fan boxes (with 10-32 screws) with the screw-out type bar hanger that extends to "bite" into the wood joists on each side. It seemed pretty solid. I think it was a Steel City model, but I'm not sure about that. Is there something better and easier to use?

Thanks for the help!!!
Click to expand...

I have taken the existing nail on box out and slipped a piece of 2x4 about a foot long(if the joists are tall enough) through the hole, then use a couple of 4 inch screws at an angle into the existing joist. then attach the pancake fan box to the 2x4. I have never been satisfied with the screw out hangers, as the 2 times I used them they loosened up over time, and numerous ones I didn't install did the same thing. My method doesn't work well on TJI joists though, only normal ones.- Scott
 
tx2step said:
I've mainly done commercial and industrial work before, but am starting to do some residential now, too. A few days ago I was replacing a ceiling light fixture with a ceiling fan. This was on the first floor of a 2 story house, so no access from above - only from below. It was a textured sheetrock ceiling. The existing ceiling box was a 4" round brown plastic box (with only 8-32 screws) that was nailed to the ceiling joist with 2 nails outside the box (the standard type, with the molded supports/nails outside the box at about 45 deg. to the box). I had a hard time getting the existing box out of the ceiling from below -- I finally clipped the box apart using my diagonal cutters (dikes) a piece at a time until I could get to the nails. There must be an easier way!!! How do you guys do it??? I'm sure I'll run into this situation a lot, and I want to make a much easier job of it in the future!!!

After I finally got the existing box out, I installed (from below) one of the steel fan boxes (with 10-32 screws) with the screw-out type bar hanger that extends to "bite" into the wood joists on each side. It seemed pretty solid. I think it was a Steel City model, but I'm not sure about that. Is there something better and easier to use?

Thanks for the help!!!
Click to expand...

Yeah, most of the time careful "butchering" is the only way in your situation. As for alternative products, if the box is nailed to the side of a joist and if you can "manipulate" enough room through the 4" hole (sometimes it can be done) than the westinghouse sidemount part # 0124000 might help. To some it may not appear meaty enough, but it is fan rated.
 
10fords said:
I have taken the existing nail on box out and slipped a piece of 2x4 about a foot long(if the joists are tall enough) through the hole, then use a couple of 4 inch screws at an angle into the existing joist. then attach the pancake fan box to the 2x4. I have never been satisfied with the screw out hangers, as the 2 times I used them they loosened up over time, and numerous ones I didn't install did the same thing. My method doesn't work well on TJI joists though, only normal ones.- Scott
Click to expand...
There are remodel fan boxes that do this without the need for an extra 2x4.
 
10fords said:
About time someone made something like this! I still don't trust plastic for mounting a fan though. What manufacturer makes these?
Click to expand...
I don't know who makes it I just grabbed the image of the web. The 10-32 studs are part of a metal bracket that goes over the back of the box. I have seen them on display at my local supply house.

There is one that is all metal using the same principal...Arlington or Steel City makes them.
 
Rats! I was hoping that y'all would have some secret tool or technique that would make removing an existing ceiling box (from below) quick and easy! I guess it's pretty much brute force...


ActionDave said:
I don't know who makes it I just grabbed the image of the web. The 10-32 studs are part of a metal bracket that goes over the back of the box. I have seen them on display at my local supply house.
There is one that is all metal using the same principal...Arlington or Steel City makes them.
Click to expand...

I'll be looking for the steel version of that box! I like the approach! Thanks!

How can you tell if an existing ceiling box is fan rated? I thought one requirement was the use of 10-32 screws to support the fan, but I couldn't find that requirement in the code...did I miss it?
 
tx2step said:
Rats! I was hoping that y'all would have some secret tool or technique that would make removing an existing ceiling box (from below) quick and easy! I guess it's pretty much brute force...




I'll be looking for the steel version of that box! I like the approach! Thanks!

How can you tell if an existing ceiling box is fan rated? I thought one requirement was the use of 10-32 screws to support the fan, but I couldn't find that requirement in the code...did I miss it?
Click to expand...

I don't know if it specifically mentions it in the code, but the answer lies in the weight capacity of various screws plus the constant vibration of a fan.
 
tx2step said:
How can you tell if an existing ceiling box is fan rated? I thought one requirement was the use of 10-32 screws to support the fan, but I couldn't find that requirement in the code...did I miss it?
Click to expand...
I don't know if it has to say fan rated on the box or paperwork but there is something about the weight rating that is required. 10-32 screws are a must for sure.
 
fan box.png
If you're right up against a joist, this bracket and box separate so you can attach the bracket and then re-attach the box.






How can you tell if an existing ceiling box is fan rated? I thought one requirement was the use of 10-32 screws to support the fan, but I couldn't find that requirement in the code...did I miss it?[/QUOTE]

fan support.jpgstamped right into the box.
 
mjf said:
View attachment 12960
If you're right up against a joist, this bracket and box separate so you can attach the bracket and then re-attach the box.






How can you tell if an existing ceiling box is fan rated? I thought one requirement was the use of 10-32 screws to support the fan, but I couldn't find that requirement in the code...did I miss it?
Click to expand...

View attachment 12961stamped right into the box.[/QUOTE]

I think that's required now, but I don't think it was in the past? And most of the questionable boxes will probably be at least a couple of code cycles old or more. So how can you tell on a box that was installed 10 or 15 years ago?
 
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