Best method to replace a 4" ceiling box from below?

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ActionDave said:
Angled screws.

View attachment 12946
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10fords said:
About time someone made something like this! I still don't trust plastic for mounting a fan though. What manufacturer makes these?
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ActionDave said:
I don't know who makes it I just grabbed the image of the web. The 10-32 studs are part of a metal bracket that goes over the back of the box. I have seen them on display at my local supply house.

There is one that is all metal using the same principal...Arlington or Steel City makes them.
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These plastic ones are great. Real easy to install if the original box is nailed to the side of the joist.
 
tx2step said:
View attachment 12961stamped right into the box.
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I think that's required now, but I don't think it was in the past? And most of the questionable boxes will probably be at least a couple of code cycles old or more. So how can you tell on a box that was installed 10 or 15 years ago?[/QUOTE]

You're probably correct that it may not have been required years ago. When I first was starting out in the early 90's, I recall my boss teaching me that if a box accepted 10/32's that it was a fan box.
 
mjf said:
You're probably correct that it may not have been required years ago. When I first was starting out in the early 90's, I recall my boss teaching me that if a box accepted 10/32's that it was a fan box.
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Somewhere along the way, I also picked up the idea that if a box has only 8-32 screws, it wasn't fan rated, and if it had (or could take) 10-32 screws, it was fan rated (but I don't know if that's really correct???). It seems like I've also seen some plastic boxes that would take 10-32 screws, but the screws only threaded into the plastic...they didn't thread into anything metal -- I don't know if those are fan rated or not. I hope one of the guys that have been doing residential for a long time (or maybe one of the inspectors on the forum) can answer how to actually tell when an older ceiling box is fan rated & safe to use for a ceiling fan. I don't want to replace an existing box unless it's really needed -- too much work!
 
ActionDave said:
If the box is nailed to a joist you don't need to change it, you are allowed to support the fan independently from the box. A couple of good screws through the fan backplate and your set.
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Won't that only support one end of the fan hanger bar? Do you support the other end of the hanger bar from the 8-32 screw of the existing ceiling box?
 
tx2step said:
Won't that only support one end of the fan hanger bar? Do you support the other end of the hanger bar from the 8-32 screw of the existing ceiling box?
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All you need is for the box to not be the sole support for the fan.

I've seen fans hanging by a thread from plastic boxes. Awful. Hanging fans from boxes with metal bracing spanning two joists that is only meant to support a five pound light fixture is a horrible thing to do, but people do it. I won't.

On the other hand, one way or another you are relying on a good solid connection to the framing to keep the fan from falling, i.e screws. If the old box is nailed to a joist then the framing is right there. All one needs to do is screw the thing that holds the fan up to the framing. 10-32 machine screws are just a middle man when you use a fan box.
 
mjf said:
I think that's required now, but I don't think it was in the past? And most of the questionable boxes will probably be at least a couple of code cycles old or more. So how can you tell on a box that was installed 10 or 15 years ago?
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I've been in trade since late 80's, from my recollection ever since then every box listed for direct fan support has had marking on it that indicates so.

You're probably correct that it may not have been required years ago. When I first was starting out in the early 90's, I recall my boss teaching me that if a box accepted 10/32's that it was a fan box.[/QUOTE]
Pretty common that in order for the box to be listed for fan support it needed more then a 8-32 screw for the fan mounting means.

tx2step said:
Somewhere along the way, I also picked up the idea that if a box has only 8-32 screws, it wasn't fan rated, and if it had (or could take) 10-32 screws, it was fan rated (but I don't know if that's really correct???). It seems like I've also seen some plastic boxes that would take 10-32 screws, but the screws only threaded into the plastic...they didn't thread into anything metal -- I don't know if those are fan rated or not. I hope one of the guys that have been doing residential for a long time (or maybe one of the inspectors on the forum) can answer how to actually tell when an older ceiling box is fan rated & safe to use for a ceiling fan. I don't want to replace an existing box unless it's really needed -- too much work!
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As has been mentioned the fan doesn't have to be supported by the box, just that if the box provides the sole support of the fan then the box shall be listed for such purpose.
 
kwired;1663904 As has been mentioned the fan doesn't have to be supported by the box said:
Some C-Fans come with a 1/32" aircraft cable (don't remember brand) that is intended to be attached to a separate framing member. Often times attachment is not practical with a vaulted ceiling.
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John120/240 said:
Some C-Fans come with a 1/32" aircraft cable (don't remember brand) that is intended to be attached to a separate framing member. Often times attachment is not practical with a vaulted ceiling.
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I see that mostly on so called industrial fans especially ones that hang on a J-hook. I think it is intended more as a safety should the fan become dislocated from the J hook, then it is intended to be the primary support method.
 
ActionDave said:
All you need is for the box to not be the sole support for the fan.

I've seen fans hanging by a thread from plastic boxes. Awful. Hanging fans from boxes with metal bracing spanning two joists that is only meant to support a five pound light fixture is a horrible thing to do, but people do it. I won't.

On the other hand, one way or another you are relying on a good solid connection to the framing to keep the fan from falling, i.e screws. If the old box is nailed to a joist then the framing is right there. All one needs to do is screw the thing that holds the fan up to the framing. 10-32 machine screws are just a middle man when you use a fan box.
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OK, that makes sense! Thanks!!!
 
kwired said:
I've been in trade since late 80's, from my recollection ever since then every box listed for direct fan support has had marking on it that indicates so.

Pretty common that in order for the box to be listed for fan support it needed more then a 8-32 screw for the fan mounting means.

As has been mentioned the fan doesn't have to be supported by the box, just that if the box provides the sole support of the fan then the box shall be listed for such purpose.
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Were the fan rated boxes always marked on the inside of the box? Or were some only marked on the outside of the box?

Thanks for the help!!!
 
tx2step said:
Were the fan rated boxes always marked on the inside of the box? Or were some only marked on the outside of the box?

Thanks for the help!!!
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Don't know what listing requirements are but would think inside is a must- otherwise you would never see the marking after ceiling finish is installed for a flush application.
 
Doesn't 314.27 in 2011 require fan rated boxes if you have spare switched conductors.
 
Sierrasparky said:
Doesn't 314.27 in 2011 require fan rated boxes if you have spare switched conductors.
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Didn't check the section but yes I recall such a rule, and personally think it is another area where NEC overstepped it's own rules on being a design manual to protect the non qualified:(
 
kwired said:
Didn't check the section but yes I recall such a rule, and personally think it is another area where NEC overstepped it's own rules on being a design manual to protect the non qualified:(
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Not a design manual ,,,,,,


They are obviously in denial.:lol:
 
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