Rewire
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake of the Ozarks
why do you think you were almost 35000 lower than the highest bid?
bid results - help?
- Thread starter CopperTone
- Start date
- Status
why do you think you were almost 35000 lower than the highest bid?
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
I can only assume that its the nature of the ecomony that where living through!
My boss said he just lost "a bid" with K figures laying on the floor!
We all can only hope that they didn't miss a package, as my boss stated!
Frankly I'd like to see a won lost raito of today's active bidding,
I'm sure it's out the window and has a gravitational coefficent out in Space.
My boss said he just lost "a bid" with K figures laying on the floor!
We all can only hope that they didn't miss a package, as my boss stated!
Frankly I'd like to see a won lost raito of today's active bidding,
I'm sure it's out the window and has a gravitational coefficent out in Space.
CopperTone
Senior Member
- Location
- MetroWest, MA
it is true you can use state registered apprentices in massachusetts. I bid our price with 1 JM and 1 4th yr apprenticer which pays him 65% of the
64/hr rate.
the highest bidder - was just way too high - 2 years ago maybe you could have squeaked in a high bid and won it but now you have to sharpen the pencil. the 2 lows were way too low - they will have to write checks to finish this job. This is what I don't understand - why would anyone do that?
I went over my numbers again and even if I didn't want to make any money on this job and risk working a couple days over my estimate I still couldn't get close to the low bids if I bid 36k I still would have been 3rd. (36k would have been too low also IMO)
It is true that they don't have to use the low bid in this case - the bidding GC can choose his subs and use their bid numbers - they usually choose the lowest sub bid to help their bid number to be low to win the job.
The sad thing is - I actually thought I had a good shot at being low on this job. I'm bidding 2 more this week and waiting on results from one last week - I'll post the results when I get them
64/hr rate.
the highest bidder - was just way too high - 2 years ago maybe you could have squeaked in a high bid and won it but now you have to sharpen the pencil. the 2 lows were way too low - they will have to write checks to finish this job. This is what I don't understand - why would anyone do that?
I went over my numbers again and even if I didn't want to make any money on this job and risk working a couple days over my estimate I still couldn't get close to the low bids if I bid 36k I still would have been 3rd. (36k would have been too low also IMO)
It is true that they don't have to use the low bid in this case - the bidding GC can choose his subs and use their bid numbers - they usually choose the lowest sub bid to help their bid number to be low to win the job.
The sad thing is - I actually thought I had a good shot at being low on this job. I'm bidding 2 more this week and waiting on results from one last week - I'll post the results when I get them
I understand that bids don't always goto the lowest bidder but how does the general decide who gets the bid and are their any laws governing it? Do govt funded projects have a set of guidlines that the must be followed or is it choose whomever you want from the bid list?
In public works contracting law the bid goes to the lowest responsible bidder. In most cases this is the GC. Each GC usually has to list their subs. So prior to submitting there bid they have to choose which subs they want to use and then they are stuck with them. Most of the time this is the guy with the lowest number on the street. Agencies sometimes write into the bid instructions things like past experience requirements in like construction and financial record to show the solvency of the company. This gives them some leeway if the low bid happens to be someone they don't feel is qualified.
We are seeing the same results in our bid. If we cut everything down to bare bones and take it at cost, we are ending up in the middle of the pack. In some cases other contractors are under us by millions. Labor isn't always the factor because we could have left all the profit and the labor out of the job and still not gotten to the low bid.
We bid a job last year that was so bad most of the competition didn't want anything to do with it. That left three of us electrical standing. We were about $2 million higher than the low bid. The GC that got the job listed them. At that time we told the GC to be sure and bond them and give us a call if they need help. Well, that contractor is closing it's doors right now and this is a fast pace job with lots of liquidated damages. The GC has a huge problem now. We are waiting for the phone call.
We are seeing the same results in our bid. If we cut everything down to bare bones and take it at cost, we are ending up in the middle of the pack. In some cases other contractors are under us by millions. Labor isn't always the factor because we could have left all the profit and the labor out of the job and still not gotten to the low bid.
We bid a job last year that was so bad most of the competition didn't want anything to do with it. That left three of us electrical standing. We were about $2 million higher than the low bid. The GC that got the job listed them. At that time we told the GC to be sure and bond them and give us a call if they need help. Well, that contractor is closing it's doors right now and this is a fast pace job with lots of liquidated damages. The GC has a huge problem now. We are waiting for the phone call.
CopperTone
Senior Member
- Location
- MetroWest, MA
this job is a prevailing wage job
dbuckley
Senior Member
- Location
- Canterbury, New Zealand
Thats a really interesting question that I've been mulling for a while.
Is it the same bunch of contractors who always have the top few bids, and if so, how do they stay in business?
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
You should go back and look at previous prevailing wage bids the lower bidders have made and see if they are consistently low bidders.
There are people who can make a few bucks while being very cheap. Now and then I have run across them, and I am always amazed that they can survive.
Part of it is looking at the contract and seeing what is the bare minimum that could possibly be meant by what the words of the contract actually says. You might be surprised to find that in many cases, some of the bidders are bidding well past what the contract actually requires.
Some things I have seen in the past:
- running a seperate EGC rather than using the conduit as an egc
- running rigid in lieu of IMC
- running rigid in lieu of EMT
- upsizing wires for VD when not called for in the drawings/spec
- using expensive outlets and light switches in lieu of the 29 cent version from HD
You get the idea.
There are people who can make a few bucks while being very cheap. Now and then I have run across them, and I am always amazed that they can survive.
Part of it is looking at the contract and seeing what is the bare minimum that could possibly be meant by what the words of the contract actually says. You might be surprised to find that in many cases, some of the bidders are bidding well past what the contract actually requires.
Some things I have seen in the past:
- running a seperate EGC rather than using the conduit as an egc
- running rigid in lieu of IMC
- running rigid in lieu of EMT
- upsizing wires for VD when not called for in the drawings/spec
- using expensive outlets and light switches in lieu of the 29 cent version from HD
You get the idea.
Is it possible the low bidders did not know it was a prevailing wage job? Or, did they intentionally bid without wage rates to get to the table? Knowing they had an out.
Rewire
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake of the Ozarks
I worked for an EC years ago that paid us on the check the Prevailing wage rate but then had us kick back the difference from our regular pay.
LawnGuyLandSparky
Senior Member
Did you do this in cash?
CopperTone
Senior Member
- Location
- MetroWest, MA
in the bid documents there are prevailing wage charts stating every trade and the rate for that trade. You are also required to file a bid bond with your bid. if you don't sign the contract in 5 days they can call your bond - 5% of the total bid - you would have to pay that essentially if you backed away from your bid.
the low companies I have seen are consistantly low and the high companies are consistantly high from what I have seen - there is also a group where I am who are consistantly in the middle.
these specs can be pretty comprehensive down to stating what brand switch to use.
I posted another bid result I just got - it is even worse.
Rewire
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake of the Ozarks
It was cash,we cashed our checks and paid him back in cash
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