Bidding question's

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Re: Bidding question's

Ive got to ask im more then capable of doing small electrical work for my friends and I do not have a problem doing this. these guys would more then likely never call the bigger companies for these jobs so I catch them. now I will not bid on a new house because I dont have the time. But should my friends have to pay out there nose to have a small room wired or a fan put up or a dryer plug addes or a panel changed out I hope not because they wont and thats why I get these jobs do you guys actually have a legit complaint with me doing these small jobs I hope not
 
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I think the one thing we can all agree upon is that it's the unlicensed hacks that should be driven out of the electrical business. We have handymen in my area who advertise electrical work, but not as many as there were before I showed these ads to the authorities.

Does anyone really have a problem with low-overhead one-man shops being in business? Like bigjohn67 said, we target different markets. I do mostly smaller jobs. My biggest job ever was under $6000. Several of my clients have told me they were grateful I called them back, as every other EC they called just blew them off.
 
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Everytime I see these types of posts mentioning the handyman... I think of the guy about 4 miles away that has the letters on his truck, "carpentry, electrical", etc... and a bright shiny aluminum ladder...
 
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Originally posted by bigjohn67:
I think the real problem is that most big companies do not want their best techs going into business for themselves.
Click to expand...
When you decide to bring on staff, train them the best you can, it is wiser to consider them to be your future competition, with this you will have good competition.
Companies with staff understand turnover will happen but it never becomes enjoyable, if for any other reasons acquaintances & friendships.
:)
 
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I think we all should be making a good living. All the work, danger and education that's involved with being an electrical contractor should reap suitable rewards. We all should be charging fees that are appropriate for a professional, not to compete with a hack, uneducated, ignorant fly-by-night handyman who doesn't know the difference between a grounded conductor and a grounding conductor. These individuals should be exposed for what they are and turned in to authorities. I have no problem with an ambitious sole propieter who wants to make something of himself, provided he's qualified, and doesn't de-value our trade by undercutting and working for peanuts. I have a landscaper buddy of mine who pulls in 70 grand a year and doesn't get out of bed for less than 200 bucks, yet I know electricians who work for peanuts due to unqualified competition. That's not right. Contact the authorities when you see illegal, non-permitted work and Charge what your trade is worth.
 
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Just like to add that before we start chopping each other's heads off here. Not one of you mentioned the ability of the "big orange box" being able to sell electrical equipment in area's where it is REQUIRED for a "certified" electrician to perform any work on an electrical system.

So here we all are, each paying insurance, liscense fee's and training cost and the "big orange box" goes unregulated to sell electrical supplies by unqualified workers to any homeowner who decides to walk in an purchase them. This includes electical panels, service meters, etc.

Let them try to do that with HVAC equipment or freon for that matter.
 
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Why is it when some ones friend needs work they justify working on the side with a comment "Why should they pay those rates when I can do it cheaper"? Aren't you making those rates when you are working for a EC! Bottom line is if you are not a EC you should not acting as one. I walked away from a EC and started my own business. It cost me a tons of money and calls are slow. I knew going out it will take some time to get my name out there. Bottom line is some have big ones and some don't. We are trying to get all counties to require State EC license. Right now only Commerical and Industrial facilities are required. If I catch an non licensed person trying to act as an EC I turn them in and let the state deal with them. Right now the max. fine is $10,000 and all work has to be removed and reinstalled by a EC at the moonlighter's expense. I hope I bury them so they know what it really cost to be in business.
 
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Originally posted by highkvoltage:
If I catch an non licensed person trying to act as an EC I turn them in and let the state deal with them. Right now the max. fine is $10,000 and all work has to be removed and reinstalled by a EC at the moonlighter's expense. I hope I bury them so they know what it really cost to be in business. [/QB]
Click to expand...
You have every right to be angry. More electricians should follow this example.
Here in Mass we finally have an Executive Director of The Electrical Board who has a backbone and is going after any one who is using false advertising or not following the required ratio of 1 apprentice to each license.
There are also several state inspectors that travel the state looking for violators.
So get angry and make some changes and report the violators just don't hurt the little guy that's trying to start a business.
Bill
 
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If you are trying to start a EC business go to a bank and get a personal or business loan.
Working nights and weekends is hurting every other EC.
If I knew one of my tech was moonlighting I would fire them.
If I'm not paying them enough to survive than they need to be on their own and not on my time.
 
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Hey justin, I'm in the same boat that you are in. I just past my wv state masters license,and i needed to pass a "laws and regulations" exam as well. i started out by buying mike holts estimating "cd,and work book" most of this was over my head but after awhile i think i know what it takes to make a competitive bid. Mike has 2 ways for over head in % or an hourly rate. i will choose the hourly rate. I never made a new construction home bid, i hear some GC's have there own rate for you and if you like it you take it.my advice (which might not be that good) would get mikes video cd and work book, and read the forums. I have very little overhead just like everyone else when they started out. I'm polite and i hope i look like a professional when i go to a job. Oh another trick i learn was that i saved 6500 when i started my business but i got a credit card with no annual fee and no interest for a year so i bought every thing i needed off that card and made sure i didn't go over 4000 so i'm going to pay the card off when one year is up so i will use barrowed money with no interest for a year well i build up my business. hope this helps some.
 
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Justin, like I had said I was not attacking you personally. I am happy to see you going about things the right way. I hope it all works out. As for bidding it was pointed out you will have to learn through experience. Inspite of what some might tell you sq foot pricing for new residential construction works quite well and is popular if you know how to do it. Ususally the sq foot price is to basic code, a few phones, a few catvs, heating boiler and thats about it. Then you start adding everything else priced per unit. Recessed lights, closet lights, etc.
 
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BigJohn67, southernboys, Jeff43222, jfls41, Tryinghard, BruceH, Highkvoltage and Willyj thanks for responding. Chrsb and khixxx thank you very much for the input and advice.
A far as I know, Massachusetts has stipulations about Masters pulling permits. I think that it is great it will help keep the small, hack, "Handyman" from doing electrical work. I feel the "Orange place" misleads peolpe that they can do most of the work themselves. In my oppinion, Electrical work and Gas fittinng should only be done by education, qualified persons. (I respect anyone who works an honest living) If a customer does the plumbing in there dwelling chances are no one will drown
 
Re: Bidding question's

[/QB][/QUOTE]
There are also several state inspectors that travel the state looking for violators.
So get angry and make some changes and report the violators just don't hurt the little guy that's trying to start a business.
Bill [/QB][/QUOTE]

I think our real burden is to educate the public. We can possibly do this through Chamber of Commerce or local Contractors Associations by running weekly information adds in local newspapers that inform the public with true facts. Like for example: "did you know if an licensed contractor without insurance has an employee who gets hurt on your job you are liable!" or "did you know if you hire an unlicensed contractor you really do not have to pay them." Information that comes out in regular intervals, that educates the public and scares the wan-a-be.

Our local paper has an add from a pest control company similar which is designed to educate the public in a humorous way. Maybe information like this can replace taxes?
 
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I can say this for fact:
I learn more on this forum about the electrical profession as a business and the technical side of what we do than any text book or college can offer.

Thanks guys for being objective for the learning process of all! It's great to know that we can all come together in a place that is not bias in any form.

Thanks
 
Re: Bidding question's

Starting a small business on a part time basis has the value of being much safer. Rather then go the low-ball road (which you have said you are not really interested in) consider going the other way.

Avoid hyper-competitive situations with many bidders. A common rule of thumb (from a contractors point of view) is that more then 3 bidders is bad. There is a certain randomness to the bidding process, but the prices will often price around a certain range. With four or more bidders it becomes increasingly unlikely that of winning because of some sort of price advantage (or luck) and instead winning because of mistakes you made.

When you are in a cattle call bidding situation, you have turned yourself into a commodity. Your only selling point is price. Many contractors who go this route never make enough additional money to jump up to the next stage, and just dribble along at the hand to mouth level. Through business organizations, trade groups, etc. try and slowly make contacts of people in your area who will call on you for special situations. Particularly those situations where price is not the first concern.

As far a specific bidding. I think the standard device/conduit count is a little safer then the square footage method. It is at least likely to get you a better approximation of material costs. However, the square footage method is a good double check to see if you are close to the mark. If not look closer to see why.

Another method I like to use as a double check for labor is scheduled time of construction. If you know how long the schedule is on a project (lets say 3 weeks) and you know you are planning to have 3 people there. Be sure that you bid at least 360 hours of work. The time it takes to accomplish work expands to the available time.

I have been burned a few times when working with other peoples estimates that did not take this into account. In your case I would consider how many trips I will need to make to the job site and figure each as at least 4 hours (if the job is reasonably close. Don't forget special trips for inspectors. You may find that a job is going to take you longer then a simple task assessment analysis would indicate.

Estimating can be very tricky, and you had better be prepared to make a few mistakes. Everyone does.
 
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Just for the record, I certainly wasn't referring to anyone posting on this site when I mentioned the term handyman. Unfortunately, I can't offer any estimating advice because I am not yet confident with it myself. I've lost a few shirts in my day.
 
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Bigjohn67, 12345rsmith, and BruceH thank you for the positive feed back. Tryinghard, I took you advice. I wrote to the U.S. and Massachusetts Chamber of Commerce, and Governor Romney with my concerns about uneducated, unlicensed "Handymen" installing electrical installations. I also wrote to a few local newspapers. I hope this helps, if I keep at it. Thank you for the inspiration.

Justin W
 
Re: Bidding question's

Justin

Just be careful of the politics of being in business and not make yourself a "blacklist target" when being vocal.
 
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