Big Box work
- Thread starter Danocap
- Start date
- Status
barbeer
Senior Member
- Location
- Pinellas County, FL
Whadya mean? Ya deliverin refrigerators?
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
Box
Box
There's bigger conduits, bigger wire, bigger tools, bigger toys, bigger pay checks, better safety requirements, better tool box talks, better parking.
Box
There's bigger conduits, bigger wire, bigger tools, bigger toys, bigger pay checks, better safety requirements, better tool box talks, better parking.
cadpoint said:There's bigger conduits, bigger wire, bigger tools, bigger toys, bigger pay checks, better safety requirements, better tool box talks, better parking.
Bigger sets of prints, more change orders, more layers of management that you must please, three phone-book size spec books...
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
"big"
"big"
Depends on what Hard Hat their wearing, our OP might or might not be on that level of "Big", maybe they'll expand on his OP...
"big"
480sparky said:
Depends on what Hard Hat their wearing, our OP might or might not be on that level of "Big", maybe they'll expand on his OP...
It's not the hard hat they're wearing, it's how much the clothes they wear cost. Some wear more to work than I make in a month.cadpoint said:
Yea, there's no NEC definition of "Big Box" :grin: I immediately think of Best Buy, Home Depot, Target, WalMart....cadpoint said:
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Xenards corporation has typically very restrictive contracts that, unless someone reads the fine print, they can get themselves into deep water. Here's some examples of big box problems with Xenards
1. they will indicate in specifications that they provide data cabling and in the prints will note that data cabling is provided by EC. They will use a catch all clause in contract that says if anything is subject to interpretation or at question, the one clause that falls in favor of Xenards will be the one used.
2. They withold retainage until all (and I mean all) other trades have completed any and all work, billing paperwork, change orders. They held our retainage for over seven months even though there were no outstanding issues with our work, CO's, billing etc... It was all someone else's problem.
3. Their different departments (building, then fitting) will use different prints on the job with different revision dates. Of course whomever shows up on the job states that that was the correct print and you installed it wrong
4. 2 year warranty - they'll get you out there to change 1 lamp
5. They provide materials and you have to warranty the labor for replacement of those materials if they fail.
Get the idea?
1. they will indicate in specifications that they provide data cabling and in the prints will note that data cabling is provided by EC. They will use a catch all clause in contract that says if anything is subject to interpretation or at question, the one clause that falls in favor of Xenards will be the one used.
2. They withold retainage until all (and I mean all) other trades have completed any and all work, billing paperwork, change orders. They held our retainage for over seven months even though there were no outstanding issues with our work, CO's, billing etc... It was all someone else's problem.
3. Their different departments (building, then fitting) will use different prints on the job with different revision dates. Of course whomever shows up on the job states that that was the correct print and you installed it wrong
4. 2 year warranty - they'll get you out there to change 1 lamp
5. They provide materials and you have to warranty the labor for replacement of those materials if they fail.
Get the idea?
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cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
"Big Shoes"
"Big Shoes"
"You can always tell a Good Actor by there Shoes"
"Big Shoes"
480sparky said:
"You can always tell a Good Actor by there Shoes"
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
Big Box My Foot
Big Box My Foot
I was at Home D the other day with my trailer getting Durarock for a tile jop at home and while I was in the store someone ran into my truck rear corner panel smashed in 1/2 the panel, first dent on my new truck. Of course they ran.
Big Box My Foot
I was at Home D the other day with my trailer getting Durarock for a tile jop at home and while I was in the store someone ran into my truck rear corner panel smashed in 1/2 the panel, first dent on my new truck. Of course they ran.
Danocap
Never heard of Xenards.
1) Ouch.
2) It is illegal in Texas to hold your retainage for any other reason than your performance.
3) Oh that sounds bad.
4) I really don’t like the 2 year warranties.
5) This is something I try hard to scope out of my contract.
Yeah get the idea.
OfficeMax, almost painless except for the National account (Rexel) I had to buy the fixtures from. Still make money on these but they make you work for it.
Novar- They furnish and install
Gear- National Account, prefab gear room.
Fixtures- National Account (NIGHTMARE) Add $10K-$15K to the fixtures for the headache. Multiple ones and twos shipments to the job, freight damage, many changes.
FA- National account, you carry. There is some kind of madness having to do with the duct detectors and annunciators but I forgot the details, you will be involved and have to make special signs too.
Communications- national account, you carry.
Bed Bath & Beyond, these are tough the lighting package is a national account and the plans are a moving target.
Novar- You pull wire and terminate, they commission.
Gear- National Account, prefab gear wall.
Fixtures- National Account easy to deal with but had a few holes that cost me. They also are VERY demanding on the lighting layout and if you are a little bit off they make you fix it.
FA- Your sub but make damn sure you follow their plan to the letter. I think the duct detectors and annuciators come with the mech package.
Communications- They picked this up.
Testing- National account, infrared testing,you carry.
POS system –Fastlane, you cary. Be careful the fixture details the fixture company submits will be different than the Fast lane submittals which will be different than the details on the e-sheets.
Ross Relatively painless, and very easy to work for but watch out the color of the devices are white on the E-sheets and Grey on the A-sheets…guess which one they want. There is a hole for the fire doors and the GC will want you to hook them up because they “tie” into the fire alarm which can be a problem in itself. I recommend excluding these doors they are a pain in the butt.
Novar- You pull wire and, they terminate and commission.
Gear- You furnish
Fixtures- National Account easy to deal with but had a few holes that cost me. The planes are a bit complicated for the fixtures but some planning makes it better.
FA- Your sub. You furnish the duct detectors and annuciators.
Communications- They picked this up, you pull the cat5.
Petsmart Fun job but the are picky bunch, and make damn sure you get their specified special order LONG lead time power poles or they will make you cry.
Novar- They furnish and install
Gear- National Account, prefab gear room.
Fixtures- National Account, not to bad unless they have the vet office then there is a pain in the butt supplier you have to deal with for the x-ray light and the exam light.
FA- Your sub, I cant remember who does the duct detectors and annunciaotors.
Communications- national account, they pick up.
Best Buy Easy job, but they are picky about the floor boxes… the kids want to play the wife says I have too… I will write more later, if I have time.
Toys R US
Circuit City
New World Market
I have done a bunch.
Never heard of Xenards.
1) Ouch.
2) It is illegal in Texas to hold your retainage for any other reason than your performance.
3) Oh that sounds bad.
4) I really don’t like the 2 year warranties.
5) This is something I try hard to scope out of my contract.
Yeah get the idea.
OfficeMax, almost painless except for the National account (Rexel) I had to buy the fixtures from. Still make money on these but they make you work for it.
Novar- They furnish and install
Gear- National Account, prefab gear room.
Fixtures- National Account (NIGHTMARE) Add $10K-$15K to the fixtures for the headache. Multiple ones and twos shipments to the job, freight damage, many changes.
FA- National account, you carry. There is some kind of madness having to do with the duct detectors and annunciators but I forgot the details, you will be involved and have to make special signs too.
Communications- national account, you carry.
Bed Bath & Beyond, these are tough the lighting package is a national account and the plans are a moving target.
Novar- You pull wire and terminate, they commission.
Gear- National Account, prefab gear wall.
Fixtures- National Account easy to deal with but had a few holes that cost me. They also are VERY demanding on the lighting layout and if you are a little bit off they make you fix it.
FA- Your sub but make damn sure you follow their plan to the letter. I think the duct detectors and annuciators come with the mech package.
Communications- They picked this up.
Testing- National account, infrared testing,you carry.
POS system –Fastlane, you cary. Be careful the fixture details the fixture company submits will be different than the Fast lane submittals which will be different than the details on the e-sheets.
Ross Relatively painless, and very easy to work for but watch out the color of the devices are white on the E-sheets and Grey on the A-sheets…guess which one they want. There is a hole for the fire doors and the GC will want you to hook them up because they “tie” into the fire alarm which can be a problem in itself. I recommend excluding these doors they are a pain in the butt.
Novar- You pull wire and, they terminate and commission.
Gear- You furnish
Fixtures- National Account easy to deal with but had a few holes that cost me. The planes are a bit complicated for the fixtures but some planning makes it better.
FA- Your sub. You furnish the duct detectors and annuciators.
Communications- They picked this up, you pull the cat5.
Petsmart Fun job but the are picky bunch, and make damn sure you get their specified special order LONG lead time power poles or they will make you cry.
Novar- They furnish and install
Gear- National Account, prefab gear room.
Fixtures- National Account, not to bad unless they have the vet office then there is a pain in the butt supplier you have to deal with for the x-ray light and the exam light.
FA- Your sub, I cant remember who does the duct detectors and annunciaotors.
Communications- national account, they pick up.
Best Buy Easy job, but they are picky about the floor boxes… the kids want to play the wife says I have too… I will write more later, if I have time.
Toys R US
Circuit City
New World Market
I have done a bunch.
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360Youth
Senior Member
- Location
- Newport, NC
ITO said:
We had some friends a few years build a new house. The GC gave them a 10 year warranty on the home, including all subs. Before they moved from their old house he wanted to add some deck lights, so I went down one night and helped him out. When we got done, I asked, "Hey, you know that warranty you're getting on the new home? I've got one of my own." As I got into the truck and started to drive off, I leaned out the window and said, "Now count to 10." :grin:
I substituted the first letter to avoid getting the post booted off the forum but as we're using the full names, it's Menards. It's a big box home improvement chain based out of Eau Claire Wisconsin. Likely won't see them down south but they're the number 3 in the states.
Their project manager's claim to fame is "it's not my problem" meaning, I don't care what you do, I am not going to pay for it. Change orders typically take 2-3 months to authorize but the work has to be completed within 2 weeks. There's no sense of urgency from their end. They'll claim up and down that they'll get you paid for it but what I found out is that that's only true about 80% of the time.
Their project manager's claim to fame is "it's not my problem" meaning, I don't care what you do, I am not going to pay for it. Change orders typically take 2-3 months to authorize but the work has to be completed within 2 weeks. There's no sense of urgency from their end. They'll claim up and down that they'll get you paid for it but what I found out is that that's only true about 80% of the time.
Menards
They have control over shipping dates on the switchgear, lighting etc... They'll send it to you months in advance and you've got a room full of gear to store. Told them three times in writing, and twice in person to wait but it fell on deaf ears.
They have Signs that cover whole sections of walls but are not shown on prints and in fact there's electrical shown behind the signs but no elevation detailed. Make sure you know where the signs are going.
Lein waivers submitted at time of application for payment. In Wisconsin, it's a void contract clause to require that but it you comply then you have submtited a valid waiver.
Walgreens
Most everything is a national account. Watch out for the lead times on equipment as that will screw up your schedule. Details on Satellite dish sketchy and I remember the security system being tricky. The soffit lighting can be difficult as the firm that supplies the lettering has a separate feed for each letter (not shown on prints)
Autozone
Also a picky bunch. They measured the conduit runs off from a column line to make sure they were correct (they were) but I've never seen someone so concerned about details that really don't matter. National accounts.
Funny thing is, many of the national account pricing I've seen, I can get for equal or less......
They have control over shipping dates on the switchgear, lighting etc... They'll send it to you months in advance and you've got a room full of gear to store. Told them three times in writing, and twice in person to wait but it fell on deaf ears.
They have Signs that cover whole sections of walls but are not shown on prints and in fact there's electrical shown behind the signs but no elevation detailed. Make sure you know where the signs are going.
Lein waivers submitted at time of application for payment. In Wisconsin, it's a void contract clause to require that but it you comply then you have submtited a valid waiver.
Walgreens
Most everything is a national account. Watch out for the lead times on equipment as that will screw up your schedule. Details on Satellite dish sketchy and I remember the security system being tricky. The soffit lighting can be difficult as the firm that supplies the lettering has a separate feed for each letter (not shown on prints)
Autozone
Also a picky bunch. They measured the conduit runs off from a column line to make sure they were correct (they were) but I've never seen someone so concerned about details that really don't matter. National accounts.
Funny thing is, many of the national account pricing I've seen, I can get for equal or less......
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Danocap said:
Yea. I have noticed that on a lot of things. People will brag about the "special" pricing they get and when I see what it actually is, it is often not all that great.
OTOH, sometimes the national account deals are incredibly attractive.
I think the purchasing agents that arrange these things get some kind of brownie points for it, and the money saved is not that great. It does tend to make the stores more uniform though, and that probably has some benefit.
I am not surprised PetSmart is picky. They seem picky about a lot of things, makes for a nice place to shop. My beagle Woofie (RIP) was the first customer dog to enter the new PetSmart when it opened up down the street when my wife took her to the grand opening. It was her second most favorite place to go (park #1). She used to walk up and down the aisles like she owned the place. We have several pictures of her taken sitting in Santa's lap there. Was the highlight of the Christmas season.
cadpoint said:
Whenever I have a guy with a tie show up on the job, I think of this video:
http://gprime.net/video.php/ihatemondays
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Well, I don't have much to add to the discussion other than retail work is a niche and you must be familiar with the market and set up to do it. Just like every other specialty.
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
This has been one of the better heads up style threads in a while. Good stuff.
Been long since I did chain(s) work but sounds like things are still pretty much the same.
Been long since I did chain(s) work but sounds like things are still pretty much the same.
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