Billing dispute (need advice) (longish)

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ishium 80439

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Denver foothills via the Horn of Africa
I made the mistake of getting into a job that had a designer trying to run the show and of course now there is dispute on the final payment. It is a long story but I will try to keep it as short as I can but still give the pertinent details.

I was referred to this woman by a contractor that I work for. She had clients that just bought a house (~7000sf) and wanted a bunch of work done before they moved in. For the miscellaneous work they wanted it came to approximately $10G. I did a final walk through with the designer and everything seemed OK.

Then the HO asked what about the dimmers? I asked what dimmers as according to my proposal (which contains the line "anything not specifically included is considered to be excluded") there were no dimmers involved. Then they dug up an email in which I wrote that dimmers were included on any new switches that we installed (a few sets of recessed lights, some pendants etc). I figured that I had made a mistake, totally forgetting about the dimmers and I would credit them back the cost of the device.

Well apparently the designer and the HO had a discussion about how much I was owed and they decided that I should be also be back charged for the cost of a handyman to R&R the devices. In addition to that the designer had sent out a check for the final payment before the HO told her about the lack of dimmers. Rather than call me and tell me that there was a problem, she stopped payment on the check and is charging me for that too.

I feel that since I was not given the opportunity to correct the situation (ie install the dimmers) and I did perform work there (ran wire, installed boxes, switches, plates etc) that I do not owe them for anything more than what I was going to charge them for the devices. In addition I feel that I am in no way responsible for the cost of the stop payment on the check.

I am considering a small claims case (I have tried several times to work this out w/ the designer to no avail) and was wondering what some opinions are. I would hate to take it that far if I have a weak case. We are talking about a very small amount of money but the principal of this thing is eating me up. I don't think I would be near as angry if she did not hold out that fee.
 
I'm with the homeowner on this one, but she does owe you some money. The backcharge for other labor and the stop payment was righteous.
 
If they called someone else to install them without giving you a call first, they owe you the total less the cost of dimmers, and they voided your warrenty....
 
ultramegabob said:
If they called someone else to install them without giving you a call first,
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Actually, they did give him a chance... they said "where's my dimmers". He said "no dimmers from me". They hire another guy to do the dimmers, since they had his email in hand. They just didn't let him know about the email until they had the work done by another party. Savvy people, I say.
 
Let her keep the stop payment fee and the handyman fee, then send her an invoice bak for the same fees, marked up for your profit of course :)

On a serious note, I do agree that you are being treated unfairly in this situation. IF they have paid you for the work that they owe you for, less the mentioned backcharges, then I would simply turn the balance of your bill over to a collection agency after it becomes 90 days past due. Be certain to send them a monthly statement showing the balance due during the 90 day period.
FWIW, I wouldn't worry to much about making the client mad in this situation as it is unlikely that you would agree to do any more work for them anyway. If I have misread that and you do see more work on the horizon from them and you are willing to work for them again, you would be better off to suck this on up and just add the monies into the next project that you do for them.
 
mdshunk said:
It does too "matter". Maybe not in court, but it darned well should matter.
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IMPO, it doesn't matter in court. I does matter, however, to the perception of your business, which may be far more important than losing money on one job.
 
ultramegabob said:
If they called someone else to install them without giving you a call first, they owe you the total less the cost of dimmers, and they voided your warrenty....
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Find out if they pulled a permit to change devices. If you're looking for any leverage that is.

P.S. This advice has been pulled out of my derriere.
 
jaylectricity said:
Find out if they pulled a permit to change devices. If you're looking for any leverage that is.

P.S. This advice has been pulled out of my derriere.
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You go that right.

This is just a simple case of "his email wrote a check that his flawed memory couldn't cash". Details, details, details. Take your lumps, and take a lesson from it. These people, in my estimation, are pretty darned savvy and business-wise. You can learn a lot from your hardass customers.
 
I definately wanted no part of the HO after this job was done. I was holding out hope that I might get a few small lighting jobs or some such from the designer, but after this I have zero desire to ever work for her again.

I honored the emails because I did indeed intend to include them, I honestly forgot. Part of the problem I have with the HO is that for weeks upon weeks I was hearing about a few fixtures that weren't lamped despite my repeated assurances that I knew about them and they would be picked up on the punch list. Yet I never heard a word about the dimmers until I was out of the house. I truly believe (though can't prove) that they sandbagged me.

When the question first came up I was genuinely confused. As it was getting sorted out via emails and phone calls was when they decided I wasn't going to be given an opportunity to make it right.
 
mdshunk said:
You go that right.

This is just a simple case of "his email wrote a check that his flawed memory couldn't cash". Details, details, details. Take your lumps, and take a lesson from it. These people, in my estimation, are pretty darned savvy and business-wise. You can learn a lot from your hardass customers.
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To tell the truth, I'm not sure how you leave the property without asking whether they wanted dimmers. If they say no, then you go on your merry way. If they say yes, then you can determine whether or not you are justified in charging them. That way you're having the discussion right there with the customer and find out that you did, indeed say that dimmers were included.

And you don't end up paying a handyman.
 
ishium 80439 said:
I truly believe (though can't prove) that they sandbagged me.
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I think you're 100% right about that. It's ignorant, but some people are like that. With a certain type of client, you've got to really be on your game, with all your I's dotted and T's crossed.
 
ishium 80439 said:
Part of the problem I have with the HO is that for weeks upon weeks I was hearing about a few fixtures that weren't lamped despite my repeated assurances that I knew about them and they would be picked up on the punch list. Yet I never heard a word about the dimmers until I was out of the house.
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OK, well that answers my question.
 
jaylectricity said:
To tell the truth, I'm not sure how you leave the property without asking whether they wanted dimmers.
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True, but that's inconsequential in this case. That discussion unfortunately didn't seem to happen like that. The slick homeowners probably knew full well they were promised dimmers when they asked for them and he said 'no'. That was probably their green light in the back of their mind to get a big self-imposed discount if they can keep their mouth shut about the email. Some people are like that.
 
jaylectricity said:
To tell the truth, I'm not sure how you leave the property without asking whether they wanted dimmers. If they say no, then you go on your merry way. If they say yes, then you can determine whether or not you are justified in charging them. That way you're having the discussion right there with the customer and find out that you did, indeed say that dimmers were included.

And you don't end up paying a handyman.
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As I said in the OP there are more details (fixtures not ordered, schedule "malfunctions", no one really ever on the job to ask questions of etc) and I just wanted to run away fast. After I did the walk through with the designer (everything was through her, I had practically no contact w/ the HO) with my proposal in hand and she said "Okey dokey" I was out of there and she let me know as soon as I sent her an invoice she would get a check to me right away.

The idea of trying for an upsell (which in my mind it was at the time) at that point was quite unappealing.
 
Where's the responsibility of the HO/designer to read the contract? If it should mention dimmers and it didn't, that's more their problem. If the OP installed what the contract said and then was willing to come back to make what could be a no-charge change, I don't see how the HO/designer has any legs to stand on.
 
zbang said:
I don't see how the HO/designer has any legs to stand on.
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They don't, legally. Fact is, he told them he would, and summarily forgot. He still needs to make good on his original promise, regardless of the contract. It's the right thing to do.
 
mdshunk said:
I think you're 100% right about that. It's ignorant, but some people are like that. With a certain type of client, you've got to really be on your game, with all your I's dotted and T's crossed.
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Marc how often would you say you get clients like these?
I agree with what you said, lesson learned, its to bad though!
 
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