A new Blood Assurance facility is being constructed. (I imagine all who read this are familiar, but just in case, they draw,process store and distribute blood). Should the area where the blood is drawn be considered as covered by Art 517 ?
Blood Assurance Art 517 ?
- Thread starter augie47
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
This has been debated on this forum before, and I am thinking that it was a year or more ago. From what I (vaguely) recall, my "absolutely not" opinion was in the minority. :happyyes: That did not change my opinion then:happyno:, and it would not now either.:happyno:
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
If anyone is interested in the basis for my ?absolutely not,? it is simply that the health of the person who enters (and who leaves just a little bit lighter) is not ascertained during the visit, nor is the person?s health altered in any way by the process. The person is not receiving ?care,? but rather is making a deposit into the bank. If there were any reason to suspect that a potential donor was not healthy, then nothing would be done about it at that facility. Instead, the offered blood donation would be declined, and the person would be asked to go to a place that does do ?health care.?
resistance
Senior Member
- Location
- WA
Not an expert in this area, but based on the definition, I agree with Charlie B.
John120/240
Senior Member
- Location
- Olathe, Kansas
As a 12 gallon blood donor, I agree with charlie b. It is not a health care type of facility in any
way, shape or form. The blood bank often has mobile drives at schools, large business, etc.
They just set up the blood drawing in a cafteria/conference room. If special electrical requirements
were required, then they could not have these mobile drives.
way, shape or form. The blood bank often has mobile drives at schools, large business, etc.
They just set up the blood drawing in a cafteria/conference room. If special electrical requirements
were required, then they could not have these mobile drives.
- Location
- Massachusetts
And I still disagree with Charlie.
resistance
Senior Member
- Location
- WA
True
And I still disagree with Charlie.
Guess I toss a coin then
I see a Moderator throw down in the making :lol:
Iwire can/will you explain your stance?
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Not the first time. Won't be the last. But you still have my deepest respect.:happyyes:And I still disagree with Charlie.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Not wishing to submit a response on Bob?s behalf, I should still like to take a stab at (groan! :roll: ) the viewpoint that is in opposition to my own. Here it is in the simplest terms: How can an activity that involves needles and blood not be considered ?health care?? While we are at it, I suppose that a phlebotomist might take offence at the suggestion that he or she is not a member of the health care profession.
To a person who took that stance I would say that we should take care not to allow language to get in the way of communication. There are things that people do in an effort to provide care for another person?s health. That is different than declaring that, ?in this portion of this building, medical care is being provided.? To my way of thinking, the day we require a ?Blood Assurance Facility? to meet the special wiring and other requirements of 517 is the day we forbid the drawing of blood in school cafeterias. That type of facility simply does not provide medical care to the person whose blood is being drawn.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
I would agree with Charlie on this one.
I bet he most amount of blood given in this community is given at the mobil blood banks.
I bet he most amount of blood given in this community is given at the mobil blood banks.
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
Orwell had it right ... "newspeak" is here .... when did a blood bank become an 'assurance facility?'
There is absolutely nothing done at a blood bank that makes it compare to even the examining room at your local doctors' office - let alone any of the concerns that led to 517 being created in the first place. Good heavens ... when 517 was first concieved, they spoke of open=heart surgery with explosive anesthetics and a power outage. This is a bit different in scale from having your teeth cleaned or a needle stuck in your arm.
I'm a bit disturbed by the language of 517. To wit:
The scope is 'health care facilities that provide services to human beings.' That is an eye-opener in itself. Open heart surgery with explosive anesthetics and a power outage is not covered- if the patient is a racehorse. Just as critical, "services" is broad enough to apply to the bookkeeping department.
"Health care facilities" is further defined as most any place where any sort of 'medical' person deals with his patients, whether fixed or mobile. The psychiatrists' couch is a 'medical facility.' So is the dentists' chair. And the ambulance.
We get some help under 'applicability.' (517.10) That's just plain backwards. In effect, the code says 'this is the scope - but it's not.' Why could they not have defined the scope within the scope section?
Is a blood bank like a clinic, or an outpatient facility? I have to say, given the broad scope of the language, that it is.
I'll toss the ball back to the OP and ask: exactly what provisions of 517 do you have an issue applying to your blood bank? Exactly how does 517 change things from your usual methods?
It appears that you need to use conduit or "health care MC' for anything the patient might contact while being treated. (517.11 General installation). What does that involve? The receptacle that powers the blood pressure monitor?
Exception 2 of the "General Care Areas" (517.18) seems to apply to the blood bank, and you need not apply the redundant circuits or emergency power requirements.
517.25 seems to define 'essential electrical' in such a way that the usual bugeyes are enough to get you out of there if the power fails.
There is absolutely nothing done at a blood bank that makes it compare to even the examining room at your local doctors' office - let alone any of the concerns that led to 517 being created in the first place. Good heavens ... when 517 was first concieved, they spoke of open=heart surgery with explosive anesthetics and a power outage. This is a bit different in scale from having your teeth cleaned or a needle stuck in your arm.
I'm a bit disturbed by the language of 517. To wit:
The scope is 'health care facilities that provide services to human beings.' That is an eye-opener in itself. Open heart surgery with explosive anesthetics and a power outage is not covered- if the patient is a racehorse. Just as critical, "services" is broad enough to apply to the bookkeeping department.
"Health care facilities" is further defined as most any place where any sort of 'medical' person deals with his patients, whether fixed or mobile. The psychiatrists' couch is a 'medical facility.' So is the dentists' chair. And the ambulance.
We get some help under 'applicability.' (517.10) That's just plain backwards. In effect, the code says 'this is the scope - but it's not.' Why could they not have defined the scope within the scope section?
Is a blood bank like a clinic, or an outpatient facility? I have to say, given the broad scope of the language, that it is.
I'll toss the ball back to the OP and ask: exactly what provisions of 517 do you have an issue applying to your blood bank? Exactly how does 517 change things from your usual methods?
It appears that you need to use conduit or "health care MC' for anything the patient might contact while being treated. (517.11 General installation). What does that involve? The receptacle that powers the blood pressure monitor?
Exception 2 of the "General Care Areas" (517.18) seems to apply to the blood bank, and you need not apply the redundant circuits or emergency power requirements.
517.25 seems to define 'essential electrical' in such a way that the usual bugeyes are enough to get you out of there if the power fails.
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