Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

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George Stolz

George Stolz

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Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
Occupation
Hospital Master Electrician
I am in charge of a inconsequential project in a small city. I mind my own business, do my own thing. Upon occasion, I get behind. When I get behind, I call in the calvary.

When I got a 10-year journeyman and a 1+ year apprentice to help that only trim, I knew they were fast at trimming. It's all they do. They should be.

I let them trim one of my houses, and this is what I got:
(Click for larger image)

<a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/georgestolz/Electrical/091af5f8.jpg" target="_blank"> :D
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Gripe to the peanut gallery.

That made my day. :(

I definately would go to the license holder, probably with the journeyman and the photos.
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Its sad but it happens all the time. I was going to say good help is hard to find, but I think it is more like try to find someone that will pass the drug test and put up with the crap til someone better comes along.
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

The thing is, this is good help. Whenever a undesirable job comes down the pike, this j-man steps up to volunteer. Hard-working, punctual, loyal. Their work ethic when it comes to staying busy, keeping after it, is second to none.

It's just how they apply themselves that makes me want to bang my head against a brick wall. That's why I'm not in a rush to go running to the boss, I'm honestly torn as to how to proceed. :(
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Where is the inspector? In the interest of public safety these people must be stopped.

romeo
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

George, apparently you've worked with this journeyman before. Ask him what's with all the shoty work. No excuse but did he have a bad day? Has the other work he done been OK? Do you want to use him again? Especially if you want to use him again, let him know of the problems, deal with it with him. Let him know your dissatisfaction and what you had to do to fix it up. Maybe next time he will do better and you may want to even tell him that you like working with him or the good points of his work, but if you have to deal with this again, you will go to his boss and either make sure you don't get him for work again or you will just completely use someone else's company for extra help.
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

george, this is why I no longer wire beside "gettin too old" Just could not find people who took pride in their work. Oh, yes they knew better just did not care. Also, I had to exclude drug testing from My classified adds that I ran "No one responded" I am not saying that this is the direction the trade is turning but "doggonit" sure seems like it. As an Inspector it has become quite a chore also. It would be a "utopia" to have this forum in our juristion.
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Talk to your boss and explain your concern. Possibly the journeyman is allowing apprentice to do more than he is capable of. Possibly the journeyman is not competent. I prefer to discuss these situations with "offending" employees, not to have their coworkers do it. I try to have these discussions in a way that is not belittling.
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Yikes. I can't really think of a valid excuse for such poor work. I think I have an idea why these guys are so fast.

You said you were in charge of this project, so blame is going to fall on you when this "workmanship" comes to light. You say this j-man is a good guy, but he clearly dropped the ball here. I have a hard time imagining someone with his experience and reputation doing work this bad, so I suspect it was done by the apprentice without proper supervision. Work ethic dosn't mean a whole lot if the work is poor.

Under the circumstances you describe, I'd talk directly to the j-man and ask him what the deal is. Let him know you aren't looking to get him jacked up with the boss, but point out that the work in question is not acceptable. If he gets defensive and makes excuses, then you take things to the boss.

It's unfortunate when pros don't take pride in their work because it cheapens the trade. People aren't going to pay pro rates for amateur work.

You might want to consider becoming an EC. It makes it a lot easier to ensure quality work when you are the boss. :D

[ January 13, 2006, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: jeff43222 ]
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Originally posted by georgestolz: When I got a 10-year journeyman and a 1+ year apprentice to help that only trim, I knew they were fast at trimming. It's all they do.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to get this entirely correct, as I am going from memory of a book I read a decade or more ago. But it should still make my point.

I read the following story in a book by, and about, Fr. Theodore Hesburgh, President Emeritus of the University of Notre Dame. One of his first official acts, upon taking on the job of president, was to fire the Athletic Director. "You can't fire me," he was told, "I have over 25 years of experience." Fr. Hesburgh's reply was something along the lines of, "No you don't. You have one year of experience, and you have repeated it 25 times."

The fact that a journeyman (or an engineer, or a member of any other profession) has 10 years of experience does not mean that the person has a guaranteed minimum level of skill. If the person spent all ten years doing things in a sloppy manner, and was never taught how to do things in a professional manner, then Fr. Hesburgh's line comes into play: "You have one year of experience, and you have repeated it 10 times."
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Originally posted by georgestolz:
I am in charge of a inconsequential project in a small city. I mind my own business, do my own thing. Upon occasion, I get behind. When I get behind, I call in the calvary.
Click to expand...
George,
I overlooked the fact that You are in charge, and You call in the cavalry.

Welcome to Management! :D

You definately need to speak directly to this guy. And take your photos.

Start off with something to the effect of,
"I noticed you did (this) and (that). Do You think (this) and (that) is exceptable??"

Throw the ball in his court.

And remember, if it bothers you, it needs to be addressed! (even in circumstances where you end up wrong).

The only way that this guy will know, is if you say something.

Otherwise, it will be the same old thing, and you will get more and more frustrated, 'till your head explodes, and possibly the men in white coats come to take you 'home'.
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

What about the bullets??? Where did they come into play??

Sadly, it looks DIY work. Bad DIY work at that.

Did the journeyman see all the work the apprentice did?? Maybe you need to lay him out more on what you need on the LV panel. I know you may think that you shouldn't have to. Maybe no one has ever checked his work before.

Talk to him nicely about it. When you calm down. Leave the bullets at home. Make it "we" thing on how "we" can stop this in the future. Only then when you don't get any relief, take the pictures to the master.

A couple simple rules:
If your not going to help fix it; quit b&tchin' about it or quit.
And the more common:
If your not part of the solution; then you're part of the problem.

By reading your posts I peg you as a "part of the solution" guy

Good Luck
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Explain to the J-man how you want your jobs done. Tutor the apprentice so he hopefully won't pick up too many bad habits. Tell the master if your jobs come in over & you're under the gun.(that's where the bullits come in). Complain to the peanut gallery all you want. :D
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Just as a bit of well at the time it wasn`t but thinking of it it is funny.2 years ago we were way behind on trims the company hired these 5 guys to do piece trims they said in a weekend they would trim 10 homes if they were paid on monday.Come monday all homes passed inspection (no power) and they got paid and left.Come the meters and nothing worked why devices fixtures installed but never hooked to wire #1.True story but sad.
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Sounds like your company is on the cutting edge of being retarted.
Allen this is so stupid its actually funny, thanks for the laugh.
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

george

knowing this kind of work is being done, and posting pictures about it, makes you just as guilty, is this an isolated incident or is this his usual work? if this is his usual work, he does not care and needs to find a new career before he kills somebody, maybe you can help him find a new line of work that does not involve electric, if he is doing this kind of work for you, he is also doing it elsewhere, where maybe nobody is following behind him, or I mean babysitting him
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

just went through this the other day. i just moved, first day on the job at the new company. me and a "journeyman" go on a service call, no power at detached shed. lightning struck the ground and fried the UF (eek) branch circuit feeding it. the "journeyman" tells the boss we need to refeed from the junction box in the house to the shed sub panel, thats it. what he didnt tell him was the circuit originated in the main panel as an 8-2 breakered at 40a, ran to a welder plug in the garage and was tapped into with a piece of 10-2 which ran inside the wall to an lb popping out of the back wall where a piece of 10-3 UF was wire nutted in the lb to that 10-2. the neutral and ground from the uf under one wire nut with the ground from the 10-2. sleeved across the yard 6 inches deep. all terminating into a loaded 12 circuit sub panel with no main disco with the neutral and grounds connected.

i told the owner plain and simple. i actually told him i could fill the front of a legal pad with the code violations and serius hazards. this is a liability issue plain and simple and so is yours. "ratting" sucks but this is your job. remember the burden of the owner. this guy stakes his life, the food he eats, the money that sends his kids through school, his house payment, everything.. on just how well you(they) do your job. if you or someone else is not doing thier job there really is much more at stake then ill feelings.

also an ex girlfriend taught me a good lesson. once a cheater, always a cheater. i say fry'em, the more you run out the better we all end up. kinda harsh but as you can tell im just fed the hell up with it.

** edited to replace feeder with "branch circuit feeding"

[ January 13, 2006, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: PlnOldRick ]
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

I think Charlie said it best. We are all here to take the abuse because there is always more to learn. Either you are a leader or a follower. Either you take the responsibilty to teach or you don't.
 
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