Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

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Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Originally posted by ty:
[qb] Agreeing into an illegal contract, would not make the contract legal.

It's not illegal

It is the Contractor's responsibility to make sure there is no violations, (CODE or SPEC) not the employee.

I agree but has nothing to do with the agreement signed with the local on violations

This is why there needs to be SUPERVISION.

There is Supervision but maybe the forman had a brain fart that day

If it were legal to make the employee fix the violation for free, then you should be able to also charge him administration fees, labor for the Forman, re-inspection fees, etc... which you can't.

The agreement only makes them fix there violations

How about asking the FORMAN to fix it for free, after all, he should have been overseeing the job. See what he says.

It would be his job to fix it but I am sure he will have the guy who did it fix it.
I would only deal with him. Who does it I don't care as long as I don't pay for labor twice.

If they were paid as sub-contractors, that might be different, but not for an hourly employee.

In your case yes but I have a signed agreement with the local.

[ January 17, 2006, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: fc ]
Click to expand...
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Originally posted by fc:
Agreeing into an illegal contract, would not make the contract legal.
It's not illegal
Click to expand...
I have watched enought "judge judy" on TV to know that a contract for someting illegal is not allowed to be brought for a remidy in court.

The issue here is: "if the contract is legal."

I suggest that the Union brought all thier lawyers into the negociations before anyone signed any contract.

And, stipulations about the quality of the work, should have been addressed at that time.

Further, those same negociations could require a worker to fix the work on his/her own time as Union negociations are not covered under the federal wage and hour laws.
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

I will quote what the Collective Bargaining Agreement says This is between Local Union of IBEW AFL-CIO
Article 12.5 " A journeyman wireman shall be required to make corrections on improper workmanship,for which he is responsible,on his own time and during regular working hours,unless errors were made by order of the employer,or the employer's representative "
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Originally posted by fc:
Article 12.5 " A journeyman wireman shall be required to make corrections on improper workmanship,for which he is responsible,on his own time and during regular working hours,unless errors were made by order of the employer,or the employer's representative "
Click to expand...
Again I would never agree to that as a matter of principle.

It has absolutely nothing to do with me making a mistake, it has to do with being owned.

But to each their own. :)
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Originally posted by fc:
I will quote what the Collective Bargaining Agreement says This is between Local Union of IBEW AFL-CIO
Article 12.5 " A journeyman wireman shall be required to make corrections on improper workmanship,for which he is responsible,on his own time and during regular working hours,unless errors were made by order of the employer,or the employer's representative "
Click to expand...
Yeah, I am sure that one is enforced. :roll:
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Last year a job performed by the foreman and journeymen went bad, the damage to the electrical equipment and the building was estimated at $250,000.00. The 4000 amp 480volt service switch was energized and at least two items were gross negligence on the part of the workers.
1. Improper grounding of the service

2. They swapped A phase with the Neutral phase and when the 4000 amp switch closed, the neutral connections into the building were energized.


A simple continuity test before energizing would have picked up number 2.

The contractor tried to force the issue and have the Union make the original guys work for free to fix this, but that did not happen. More sparks flew!!!
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

I am having a hard time understanding all of this and have questions. Did the electrical contractor ( The Boss ) pull a permit for the job? And was the job inspected ? I am surprised hat no one else has asked this question, or am i missing something ? The responsibly for proper electrical work does not reflect on the job superintendent but it does on the electrical inspector.

again if i am missing something please tell me, as i am not always the brightest light on tree.

Thanks romeo
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Originally posted by romeo The responsibly for proper electrical work does not reflect on the job superintendent but it does on the electrical inspector.

again if i am missing something please tell me, as i am not always the brightest light on tree.

I think the inspector would have caught the grounding issue,but not the wiring snafu.
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Romeo as much as an inspector should have seen this IMO the responsibility lies with the trained person that flipped the switch without any verification of the connections.

Particularly with many sets of paralleled conductors.

I check, I check, I have someone else check and I am still nervous.
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

"I check, I check, I have someone else check and I am still nervous."

That was always me when I did big work.


The grounding may have been picked up on with a thorough inspection, but the phase mistake would be harder on this type of inspection.


There are 2 - 4000 amp service switches, with very large lineups in one service room. The bus that comes from the switch goes in several different directions within the enclosure, so it would not necessarily be the inspector's job to follow it to make sure of the connections.

The junction box above this gear is 15' x 15' by 10' deep, with many 4 inch EMT entering/exiting it. You should see the racks inside of this box.
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Union/ Non-Union comment inserted here, then deleted cause I don't want to be banned.... :cool:
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Well, not to have a boring ending to my story, but it's pretty short.

"Beep-beep Hey George."
"Yeah"
"Is that the panel I did for you?"
Curbing sarcasm (as in, 'No, I did an impersonation of your panel, how did I do?'), I replied, "Yes."
"Why didn't you call me and yell at me?"
"This is my version of that."
"I am so sorry, I can't believe I did that. Do I need to come fix it?"
"No, I took care of it."
"I won't let that happen again."
"Good."
"What's with the wire?"
I explained the hot fell out, the lights were wobbly, and described the problem with the ground folded back. I was promised it would be addressed.

I actually called the apprentice this afternoon to remind about class tomorrow, and got to clarify what the problem was in more detail.

I am satisfied that it won't be repeated. :)

I agree with Bob, parallel runs get an antacid, and I only see a pair or three every now and then. :)
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

Teach the apprentice and dock the journeyman for the time it took you to fix the problems. If he doesn't like it have check in hand and fire him. There are far to many good electricians out there.
 
Re: Blood, guts, bullets and workmanship

I am a peon, I can't fire my superiors. :D

I am very pleased that the guy's ego did not send him defensive, searching for reasons why the work was my fault.

They're good people, I guess the train derailed for a minute. I showed a co-worker the opening post, and he was shocked that the guy in question actually was responsible for it. (The co-worker happened to be standing there when I got the call. Nextels. :roll: )
 
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