Bolt on breakers

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GG said:
Does the NEC say you have to use bolt in breakers for commercial and industrial panels? TY.
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No....but the panel and breakers you choose need to meet the available fault current levels.

Also if you want to use the breakers as switches bolt on breakers are a typical answer.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
"Also if you want to use the breakers as switches bolt on breakers are a typical answer"

Exsplain that to me Bob.
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If you plan to use the breakers as daily light switches for fluorescent or HID lights which is common in some commercial occupancies the breakers must be rated 'SWD' or 'HID' I believe all bolt on breakers have the SWD / HID rating, I do not belive many (if any) plug in breakers have the SWD rating. 240.83(D)

When I see plug in breakers used as switches they are usually falling off the bus and held loosely in place by the panel cover.
 
iwire said:
If you plan to use the breakers as daily light switches for fluorescent or HID lights which is common in some commercial occupancies the breakers must be rated 'SWD' or 'HID' I believe all bolt on breakers have the SWD / HID rating, I do not belive many (if any) plug in breakers have the SWD rating. 240.83(D)

When I see plug in breakers used as switches they are usually falling off the bus and held loosely in place by the panel cover.
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SquareD 15 and 20A QO single pole plug-on and bolt-on breakers are listed as SWD. The HOM breakers have no mention of SWD.

Bolt on for daily use light switching is a good idea.

I have issues with bolt-on in some industrial applications. On one hand they stay put if you use them often. But to do any changes or modifications you have to shut the whole panel down which when used on a continuous process can be a real PITA.
 
Residential, commercial, and industrial (when applied to products) are normally simply marketing terms. effectively, all the NEC cares about is proper application based on voltage, amperage, and environment.

Square D Homeline breakers are SWD rated.
Siemens QP loadcenter breakers are SWD rated.
Cutler Hammer BR family has SWD rated breakers
 
Bobs mention ao avialble fault current levels is critical in the application of OCPD and also ahs a flow over impact on the impletation of NFPA 70 E.

Where high fault levels are present Plug in breakers may be convenient for maintenance proceedures untill there is a flash over and someone is injured. This would be a good discussion.



Charlie
 
cpal said:
Bobs mention ao avialble fault current levels is critical in the application of OCPD and also ahs a flow over impact on the impletation of NFPA 70 E.

Where high fault levels are present Plug in breakers may be convenient for maintenance proceedures untill there is a flash over and someone is injured. This would be a good discussion.



Charlie
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I woulld agree with you on this, except in most cases the supply feeding the panel can be shut off. Granted in many instances people do not want to do this; but unless you can show me how it might be more dangerous to kill the power to the panel, I'll continue to disconnect the power to the panel before changing a breaker.

By all means I think this is worth discussing.:)
 
I prefer bolt-on breakers and would use them on all of my installations if they weren't a lot more expensive not just the commercial applications.
 
infinity said:
I prefer bolt-on breakers and would use them on all of my installations if they weren't a lot more expensive not just the commercial applications.
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I agree,but just why do they cost more.I also check all the screws on pre breakered panel.
 
dlhoule said:
I woulld agree with you on this, except in most cases the supply feeding the panel can be shut off. Granted in many instances people do not want to do this; but unless you can show me how it might be more dangerous to kill the power to the panel, I'll continue to disconnect the power to the panel before changing a breaker.

My larger concern is appling the proper breaker with the available fault current, besides 70E is structured to discourage any maintenance on energized systems.

Charlie
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cpal said:
besides 70E is structured to discourage any maintenance on energized systems.
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I agree, maintenance (outside of trouble shooting) is really not allowed to be done live with or without PPE.

The only way OSHA would let you change a breaker live is if shutting it down would present a greater hazard.

If there is an accident it will be tough to argue with smoke lingering in the air that not shutting down was the safer choice to make.

JMO
 
Sorry for the succession of incomplete thoughts but the other point I wanted to make wa the security of a bolt on Vs a plug in when there ism frequent manipulation of the breaker handle.

I must clarify that this is not necessarlly a code compliance issue but more of a design concept.

Just a nother scattered thought I neglected to get to.

Charlie
 
My guess is that they don't make that much money on non-bolt-on breakers, so they make up for this small profit by making a lot of money on bolt on breakers. This is why they cost 2x-3x as much as push on units, for what is almost the same breaker.

This is just a guess, does anybody have info that is more concrete?

mike
 
iwire said:
I agree, maintenance (outside of trouble shooting) is really not allowed to be done live with or without PPE.

The only way OSHA would let you change a breaker live is if shutting it down would present a greater hazard.

If there is an accident it will be tough to argue with smoke lingering in the air that not shutting down was the safer choice to make.

JMO
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I know what osha wants,i also know that i cant ask for a scheduled shut down to add a breaker or change one out.If you hold hard onto this they just will not use your company.I look at the conditions involved and make the choice.I can say no and sometimes do.
 
this is a good discussion.

I don't think there is a safety compliance advantage to using the snap in over the bolt on, as the panel should still be shut off.

The snap on may even be less safe when working live, as the force required is right in line with the busses, so if you slip, yer headed for trouble. I think a good insulated screwdriver/nutdriver on a bolt on is comparable to the snap in, if not preferrable.

As far as durability and function, I think the bolt on is the hands down winner.
 
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