Bonding a main lug panel with main breaker outside

E

Electricski22

Member
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
I have a 200amp breaker outside which is where the ground electrode is landed and then a 3 wire SE cable is ran inside to a main lug panel. Am wanting to upgrade this panel because it is a federal pacific. If I install a new panel would I be required to run a 4 wire SE cable and separate neutral and grounds or would the 3 wire SE cable currently installed be okay and bond the neutrals and grounds?
 
You can make the existing outside breaker the EM disconnect, not service equipment and still run a 3-wire to the new panel on the inside. Look at 230.85 for the labeling requirements.
 
infinity said:
You can make the existing outside breaker the EM disconnect, not service equipment and still run a 3-wire to the new panel on the inside. Look at 230.85 for the labeling requirements.
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, it is okay to bond neutrals and grounds together in main lug panel with the existing 3 wire even if the ground rod and neutral are landed together in breaker enclosure outside?
 
Electricski22 said:
Just to be clear, it is okay to bond neutrals and grounds together in main lug panel with the existing 3 wire even if the ground rod and neutral are landed together in breaker enclosure outside?
Click to expand...
Yes, but you would need a main breaker in the new panel not a MLO. The existing breaker is then on the line side of service disconnect so it is required to be bonded to the enclosure. The grounding electrode conductor can land at any point between the panel and the service point so leaving it in the EM disconnect is fine. The new panel with the service disconnect would be wired as if there were no EM disconnect at all just like a regular service. Or you can skip all of that and just run a new 4-wire feeder to the inside panel.
 
infinity said:
Yes, but you would need a main breaker in the new panel not a MLO. The existing breaker is then on the line side of service disconnect so it is required to be bonded to the enclosure. The grounding electrode conductor can land at any point between the panel and the service point so leaving it in the EM disconnect is fine. The new panel with the service disconnect would be wired as if there were no EM disconnect at all just like a regular service. Or you can skip all of that and just run a new 4-wire feeder to the inside panel.
Click to expand...
If doing the main lug only option and running a new 4 wire, I would then separate the grounds and neutrals inside panel?
 
infinity said:
You can make the existing outside breaker the EM disconnect, not service equipment and still run a 3-wire to the new panel on the inside.
Click to expand...
Does there still need to be a service disconnect outside or at the nearest point inside, or does the emergency disconnect eliminate the requirement for one?
 
@LarryFine good question.

To me the outside breaker satisfies the requirements for the emergency disconnect and if is also the service disconnect it should be good to go.

When I put a new service in my house in 2020 I but a 150 amp meter main outside and a MLO panel inside. This was before the emergency disconnect rule I think.

I ran EMT from the meter main to the inside panel across the garage (its a feeder obviously) about 30'. MM mounted on outside of garage wall. Attached garage. All bonding done outside, 2 ground rods and water pipe ground 4 wire coming in.

I don't see why such an install wouldn't be good to go.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top