Bonding a water??

[DrSparks]

Can you elaborate further?

 

[infinity]

View attachment 13131

Ahh, that's what I thought. I guess in the case of a bypass the question about needing the bonding jumper at the HWH is moot because you no longer have a separate hot and cold system.

 

[DrSparks]

Yeah, you don't see it a lot. Most plumbers don't bother with a bypass. It's really not needed nor required. Also most residential plumbing is done in either CPVC or PEX but a lot of time the manifold is sweat up in copper, which I don't think would need to be bonded as it's such a short length of copper.

 

[kwired]

View attachment 13131

Can't recall ever seeing that on a water heater. How often would you want to bypass the water heater? Can't really think of a good reason to want to. Seen that many times for water softeners though.

Is a little rare to see a valve on both hot and cold lines, but sure is nice to isolate the hot side from back flowing when there is a need to drain the tank or change the water heater, if one used a valve with the waste valve on the body you could even change water heater and have almost no air to purge at fixtures after you are all done.

 

[Sierrasparky]

More details would be helpful, as well as any local rules that vary from NEC.

In general NEC requires metallic water piping systems to be bonded to the electrical system. However there is sometimes debate as to how much metal piping there needs to be before we have a metallic piping system and the way it is worded leaves it somewhat open to interpretation.

When such piping systems are required to be bonded you must also bond around insulating portions of the system - one common point is where dielecric unions are used on the hot and cold water inlet/outlet of the water heater tank - we would need to bond between the two pipes to ensure continuity between them, but nothing requires a bonding jumper between the piping and the water tank. The tank should be already bonded by the equipment grounding conductor associated with the water heater supply circuit regardless of what kind of water piping is used.

Long beach should have the same code as the rest of CA.

 

[kwired]

Long beach should have the same code as the rest of CA.

Not much help to those of us that don't do any work in CA.

 

[George Stolz]

The CMP is poised to rejected a proposal for the 2017 NEC based on the reliability of plumbing parts.

Oh, the stupid - it hurts, it hurts so bad...

Good proposal rejected.

 

[MasterTheNEC]

No it does not. Tap water is not conductive. If the subject of "water and electricity don't mix" come up at one of Mike Holts seminars, he will take a plug strip and put it in a picture of water, then drink from it. See photos attached.

Maybe Mr. Holt should do this with bare feet on a concrete slab......Water is an insulator, it is the impurities within the water that can aid in creating a conductor path. When the subject is isolated and the step potential is nill then they are not in harm. As for the Salt Water comments.....you do know that it is easier to become incapacitated in fresh water than in salt water right......anyway, Mr. Holt has a story on that also you all might enjoy reading.

 

[kwired]

Maybe Mr. Holt should do this with bare feet on a concrete slab......Water is an insulator, it is the impurities within the water that can aid in creating a conductor path. When the subject is isolated and the step potential is nill then they are not in harm. As for the Salt Water comments.....you do know that it is easier to become incapacitated in fresh water than in salt water right......anyway, Mr. Holt has a story on that also you all might enjoy reading.

I agree, I would do it in shoes on a non conductive surface myself - but probably not barefoot on a conductive surface. Barefoot on conductive surface - is throwing the dice to an extent, the outcome can go either way. Some current should flow through your body, but whether or not you are a low enough resistance for the conditions to be a casualty is not easy to tell without some careful study first.

Now if the plug strip were a supplied by an ungrounded source - you should be pretty safe either instance.

 

[mbrooke]

Couldn't one in theory argue Mike Holt is on an insulated floor with rubber shoes? Granted water isnt a great conductor, but doesnt the floor also play a role?

 

[kwired]

Couldn't one in theory argue Mike Holt is on an insulated floor with rubber shoes? Granted water isnt a great conductor, but doesnt the floor also play a role?

Exactly why I would likely do what he did if in same circumstances, but not when standing barefoot on a grounded surface. May still be safe the second method, but the risk is increased. Also big difference between the small insulated glass and being immersed in a pool or lake in/on grade.

 

[mbrooke]

Exactly why I would likely do what he did if in same circumstances, but not when standing barefoot on a grounded surface. May still be safe the second method, but the risk is increased. Also big difference between the small insulated glass and being immersed in a pool or lake in/on grade.

I think 2 restive paths might be at work:

1. the voltage gradient across the water itself

2. The resistance of the path to ground (how well the person if grounded)

Both play a role in how safe/dangerous insulated water is.

 

[kwired]

I think 2 restive paths might be at work:

1. the voltage gradient across the water itself

2. The resistance of the path to ground (how well the person if grounded)

Both play a role in how safe/dangerous insulated water is.

Absolutely.

Sort of same in a lake or pool. Immerse same power strip and you get voltage gradients around that strip. Get too close and you may have less resistance then the water so you divert more current through you then what flows around you. Change conductivity of water to a higher conductivity level (which we have with salt water) and the water resistance is low enough to shunt more current around you as a general rule - still dangerous enough to experiment with it on yourself though.