Bonding and PEX pipe

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tonype

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New Jersey
I occasionally see homes where PEX piping has been installed in random places during remodeling, repairs, etc. In general, how does this affect the bonding to the water pipes (jumpers across water heaters, water meters, etc? Are modifications needed?
 
My best answer is talk to AHJ. Some have their own quirks whether everyone agrees with them or not on this sort of thing.

As general rule you are supposed to bond to metallic water piping systems. There is nothing clear cut that says how much butchering with non metallic sections of pipe can be done before it is no longer a metallic piping system though.
 
Once pex is installed you no longer have a metal piping system, you have a metal and plastic piping system. As long as the pex doesn't affect the connection to a water pipe that qualifies as a grounding electrode it's likely nothing needs to be modified. If the house is old enough that the wiring didn't have an equipment grounding conductor and somebody bonded to the metal pipe and put in newer receptacles that would need some attention to make sure the integrity of the fault path is kept.
 
Which is also why the code says to bond within 5 feet of the water pipe entering the house.
 
I say it depends, if the house is all rotten old galvanized and your going to eventually redo it all then who cares don't bond it.
When pex first came out, I had a plumber friend do a small repair on my plumbing, literally about a foot long.
My house is all copper otherwise so I put 2 grounding clamps on and jumpered it with a #4
Then recently my waterline got replaced with pex, but I still have all the copper in the house so I kept that #4 attached.
 
If the section is "likely to become energized " such as connected to electric water heater, or pump, the section of copper pipe probably needs to be re-bonded, usually only sized to the source potentially energizing of the pipe as it may no longer be attached to or with the copper pipe that may have been the GEC, or previously bonded pipe.
If the remaining sections of copper pipe are not located so as to be "likely to become energized " then nothing more needed other than already mentioned by others about any section that is acting as or attached for a GEC.
 
If the section is "likely to become energized " such as connected to electric water heater, or pump, the section of copper pipe probably needs to be re-bonded, usually only sized to the source potentially energizing of the pipe as it may no longer be attached to or with the copper pipe that may have been the GEC, or previously bonded pipe.
If the remaining sections of copper pipe are not located so as to be "likely to become energized " then nothing more needed other than already mentioned by others about any section that is acting as or attached for a GEC.
Why wouldn't the EGC for the item that might energize it be sufficient? If also isolated from that item (dielectric union perhaps) then why would it be likely to become energized?
 
Around here the when a plumber pulls a permit to replace a water service the plumbing inspector requires an electrician to verify the grounding. Its usually becasue old houses have one driven rod and the water pipe, so we install a ground rod or two if the other one is super old.
We had one last winter and one of the guys called me out to check it out as it looked strange.
Turns out they had water pipe clamps everywhere in the basement someone used to 'ground' the outlets.
This was a large old house also, so we did make sure all the pipes were still bonded.
And yes I know its not code to ground a outlet to a water pipe any more, but old houses you never know.
 
Around here the when a plumber pulls a permit to replace a water service the plumbing inspector requires an electrician to verify the grounding. Its usually becasue old houses have one driven rod and the water pipe, so we install a ground rod or two if the other one is super old.
We had one last winter and one of the guys called me out to check it out as it looked strange.
Turns out they had water pipe clamps everywhere in the basement someone used to 'ground' the outlets.
This was a large old house also, so we did make sure all the pipes were still bonded.
And yes I know its not code to ground a outlet to a water pipe any more, but old houses you never know.
I think you can still bring it to the first five feet of entry area if that first five feet is associated with a water pipe grounding electrode.
 
I occasionally see homes where PEX piping has been installed in random places during remodeling, repairs, etc. In general, how does this affect the bonding to the water pipes (jumpers across water heaters, water meters, etc? Are modifications needed?
I'm going to respond to this without looking up and referencing code. I'm relying on my memory which may not be as good as it used to be. Once PEX is installed in a residential application, you no longer have a plumbing system capable of conducting electrical current. Sure, some will argue about the mineral content of water creating a conductor but generally, water itself does not conduct electricity. I have since retired but I was under the impression that a few code cycles ago, bonding of the incoming water line was no longer acceptable. As municipalities replace old water pipes, they are doing so with non-metallic piping. That metallic grid that used to exist is no longer reliable. The incoming water electrode was previously required as an acceptable GEC but that was assuming that the incoming water electrode was 10 feet in length. As an electrician and/or an inspector, there is no way to determine if the incoming water electrode is 10 feet in length so using it as a GEC is no longer acceptable. Sorry, I didn't have the time to quote specific code references.
 
I'm going to respond to this without looking up and referencing code. I'm relying on my memory which may not be as good as it used to be. Once PEX is installed in a residential application, you no longer have a plumbing system capable of conducting electrical current. Sure, some will argue about the mineral content of water creating a conductor but generally, water itself does not conduct electricity. I have since retired but I was under the impression that a few code cycles ago, bonding of the incoming water line was no longer acceptable. As municipalities replace old water pipes, they are doing so with non-metallic piping. That metallic grid that used to exist is no longer reliable. The incoming water electrode was previously required as an acceptable GEC but that was assuming that the incoming water electrode was 10 feet in length. As an electrician and/or an inspector, there is no way to determine if the incoming water electrode is 10 feet in length so using it as a GEC is no longer acceptable. Sorry, I didn't have the time to quote specific code references.
Though that may be true, NEC wording hasn't really changed much in determining what is or is not an electrode. It doesn't state how to determine if something unknown is or is not qualifying though, that leaves us with installer and AHJ discretion on how to deal with an existing unknown buried water pipe. In most cases I have seen if they are replacing a metal pipe up to the building they usually bring it all the way inside. They are just asking for potential troubles later on if they make a conversion just outside when they could have brought it a couple more feet into the building while having the yard all dug up already.
 
Though that may be true, NEC wording hasn't really changed much in determining what is or is not an electrode. It doesn't state how to determine if something unknown is or is not qualifying though, that leaves us with installer and AHJ discretion on how to deal with an existing unknown buried water pipe. In most cases I have seen if they are replacing a metal pipe up to the building they usually bring it all the way inside. They are just asking for potential troubles later on if they make a conversion just outside when they could have brought it a couple more feet into the building while having the yard all dug up already.
I worked for a mid-sized city in Western NY state. The city was the AHJ and therefore I was such. I believe that the question of utilizing the incoming water electrode being used as a GEC came about with the 2014 code cycle. In the city I worked within, there was a program that replaced all the metal water pipe in the streets up to the premises property line where the shut off valve was located. That often left it up to interpretation whether the electrode remained intact for 10 feet as many city lots did not have 10 feet of land between their foundation and the city's property line. At that time, most outside inspection agencies and the city agreed that we would no longer accept the incoming water line as the primary GEC. Double ground rods spaced 6-feet apart became the norm on a service change in old construction. In new construction, bonding of the footer was required which became the primary GEC with a ground rod driven as supplemental. If memory serves me correctly, I believe it is 250.52(A)(1) that defines whether a metal underground water pipe is to be used as a grounding electrode. The last code cycle I enforced was 2017. It should be the same for 2020 but I do not have access to that edition. And of course, for all the technicality people out there, the AHJ enforces the International Code. You can get to the NEC from there but technically, you can't quote the NEC in enforcement. You have to quote the IRC for residential of the current code cycle. I believe that the IBC refers you directly to the NEC if I recall. Things may have changed since I retired.
 
I worked for a mid-sized city in Western NY state. The city was the AHJ and therefore I was such. I believe that the question of utilizing the incoming water electrode being used as a GEC came about with the 2014 code cycle. In the city I worked within, there was a program that replaced all the metal water pipe in the streets up to the premises property line where the shut off valve was located. That often left it up to interpretation whether the electrode remained intact for 10 feet as many city lots did not have 10 feet of land between their foundation and the city's property line. At that time, most outside inspection agencies and the city agreed that we would no longer accept the incoming water line as the primary GEC. Double ground rods spaced 6-feet apart became the norm on a service change in old construction. In new construction, bonding of the footer was required which became the primary GEC with a ground rod driven as supplemental. If memory serves me correctly, I believe it is 250.52(A)(1) that defines whether a metal underground water pipe is to be used as a grounding electrode. The last code cycle I enforced was 2017. It should be the same for 2020 but I do not have access to that edition. And of course, for all the technicality people out there, the AHJ enforces the International Code. You can get to the NEC from there but technically, you can't quote the NEC in enforcement. You have to quote the IRC for residential of the current code cycle. I believe that the IBC refers you directly to the NEC if I recall. Things may have changed since I retired.
I don't know about other codes you mentioned, but NEC has been 10 feet or more of metallic water piping in direct contact with earth must be utilized as a grounding electrode for a very long time. Has never been mentioned in the NEC how to determine if there is 10 feet or more in an existing install where you might not know for certain though - that would essentially be up to AHJ how to handle those situations.

I can understand the situation of running new non metallic to the shutoff throughout a city or subdivision, and going no further and how there possibly can be less than 10 feet from that shutoff to the point of entry. That isn't the case all that often around here so if there is metallic piping leaving the house, there is a pretty good chance there is at least 10 feet of it in the dirt outside the home. On top of that NEC requires a supplemental electrode with a water pipe electrode anyway, if no CEE available then you likely will be driving rod(s) to get a supplement.
 
I don't know about other codes you mentioned, but NEC has been 10 feet or more of metallic water piping in direct contact with earth must be utilized as a grounding electrode for a very long time. Has never been mentioned in the NEC how to determine if there is 10 feet or more in an existing install where you might not know for certain though - that would essentially be up to AHJ how to handle those situations.

I can understand the situation of running new non metallic to the shutoff throughout a city or subdivision, and going no further and how there possibly can be less than 10 feet from that shutoff to the point of entry. That isn't the case all that often around here so if there is metallic piping leaving the house, there is a pretty good chance there is at least 10 feet of it in the dirt outside the home. On top of that NEC requires a supplemental electrode with a water pipe electrode anyway, if no CEE available then you likely will be driving rod(s) to get a supplement.
To add to this before, I believe 1996 NEC, you could tag metal water pipe with GEC anywhere you wanted, and just put a bonding jumper around the water meter. It was then that they changed it to require connecting within the first five feet of entry, though still needed to bond around water meters if they are in that path.
 
I don't know about other codes you mentioned, but NEC has been 10 feet or more of metallic water piping in direct contact with earth must be utilized as a grounding electrode for a very long time. Has never been mentioned in the NEC how to determine if there is 10 feet or more in an existing install where you might not know for certain though - that would essentially be up to AHJ how to handle those situations.

I can understand the situation of running new non metallic to the shutoff throughout a city or subdivision, and going no further and how there possibly can be less than 10 feet from that shutoff to the point of entry. That isn't the case all that often around here so if there is metallic piping leaving the house, there is a pretty good chance there is at least 10 feet of it in the dirt outside the home. On top of that NEC requires a supplemental electrode with a water pipe electrode anyway, if no CEE available then you likely will be driving rod(s) to get a supplement.
I don't disagree with your statement. It would be up to the AHJ to make that decision just as we had to but we also coordinated our decision with the 3rd party agencies that inspect outside of the city so that electrical inspections would be uniform throughout the area. It's difficult when one entity requires something different from another entity. You mentioned supplemental grounds with the water pipe electrode and CEE. Keep in mind that a supplemental electrode such as a ground rod, is only rated to clear up to a 100A fault. Hence the necessity for two electrodes in a GEC system. I doubt that by mid summer in many areas, a single ground rod would be able to clear that much of a fault but as people often point out, the code is the minimum, the worst you can possibly perform. With our aging and antiquated infrastructure and ever more sensitive electronic equipment, grounding and bonding is extremely important. It should be better taught and understood than it presently is. Most electricians that I encountered as an inspector knew how to ground and bond to the code requirements but often, many didn't fully comprehend why.
 
To add to this before, I believe 1996 NEC, you could tag metal water pipe with GEC anywhere you wanted, and just put a bonding jumper around the water meter. It was then that they changed it to require connecting within the first five feet of entry, though still needed to bond around water meters if they are in that path.
I previously mentioned the legal path we had to take to dispute a non-code-compliant encounter. We couldn't just quote the NEC unless you were inspecting an other than one or two-family dwelling covered by the Residential Code. Most, if not all states adopted the International codes a few years back. An electrical inspector technically inspects to the requirements of the International Codes. As I mentioned, the International Building Code directs you to the NEC but the International Residential Code contains the enforceable electrical code in chapters 34 through 43. All Professional Trades Inspectors are required to enforce the requirements of the International Code Series. We did rely on the NEC most of the time but if it came down to a legal dispute, you had to start with the origin that permitted you to inspect and then work your way to the electrical code.
 
I don't disagree with your statement. It would be up to the AHJ to make that decision just as we had to but we also coordinated our decision with the 3rd party agencies that inspect outside of the city so that electrical inspections would be uniform throughout the area. It's difficult when one entity requires something different from another entity. You mentioned supplemental grounds with the water pipe electrode and CEE. Keep in mind that a supplemental electrode such as a ground rod, is only rated to clear up to a 100A fault. Hence the necessity for two electrodes in a GEC system. I doubt that by mid summer in many areas, a single ground rod would be able to clear that much of a fault but as people often point out, the code is the minimum, the worst you can possibly perform. With our aging and antiquated infrastructure and ever more sensitive electronic equipment, grounding and bonding is extremely important. It should be better taught and understood than it presently is. Most electricians that I encountered as an inspector knew how to ground and bond to the code requirements but often, many didn't fully comprehend why.

How can a ground rod clear a fault???
 
I don't disagree with your statement. It would be up to the AHJ to make that decision just as we had to but we also coordinated our decision with the 3rd party agencies that inspect outside of the city so that electrical inspections would be uniform throughout the area. It's difficult when one entity requires something different from another entity. You mentioned supplemental grounds with the water pipe electrode and CEE. Keep in mind that a supplemental electrode such as a ground rod, is only rated to clear up to a 100A fault. Hence the necessity for two electrodes in a GEC system. I doubt that by mid summer in many areas, a single ground rod would be able to clear that much of a fault but as people often point out, the code is the minimum, the worst you can possibly perform. With our aging and antiquated infrastructure and ever more sensitive electronic equipment, grounding and bonding is extremely important. It should be better taught and understood than it presently is. Most electricians that I encountered as an inspector knew how to ground and bond to the code requirements but often, many didn't fully comprehend why.
How can a ground rod clear a fault???
Yes how can it? if you put in a single rod that does have less than 25 ohms it will still limit current to a fairly low level.

Say you actually had a resistance of 2 ohms - using ohms law and assuming we are dealing with 120 volts to ground that means only 60 amps of current flows, not even going to trip a 60 amp breaker. Grounding electrodes are not intended for facilitating overcurrent protection they are for establishing a ground reference and for bleeding transient voltages imposed on the grounded conductor to earth.
 
First of all, a ground rod with a resistance of less than 25 ohms is required to be supplemented by a secondary means so according to the code, you should never incur a 2-ohm resistance to ground. That’s why a single ground rod is not code-compliant. The code doesn't answer "what if" so your proposed scenario although possible, is not a question the code can address. But that doesn’t address the original question you responded to of "How can a ground rod clear a fault???"

This question is the catalyst for many conversations. Most people don’t understand the difference between grounding a service, grounding equipment or bonding. Although all approved GECs are always required to be in direct contact with the earth, the code appears to be contradictive in some people's opinion in the fact that the last sentence of 250.4(A)(5) indicates that “The earth shall not be considered as an effective ground-fault current path.” The following is taken directly from the 2017 NEC as it is the most recent version I have access to.

250.4(A)(1) Electrical System Grounding. Electrical systems that are grounded shall be connected to earth in a manner that will limit the voltage imposed by lightning, line surges, or unintentional contact with higher-voltage lines and that will stabilize the voltage to earth during normal operation.

250.4(A)(5) Effective Ground-Fault Current Path. Electrical equipment and wiring and other electrically conductive material likely to become energized shall be installed in a manner that creates a low-impedance circuit facilitating the operation of the overcurrent device or ground detector for high-impedance grounded systems. It shall be capable of safely carrying the maximum ground-fault current likely to be imposed on it from any point on the wiring system where a ground fault may occur to the electrical supply source. The earth shall not be considered as an effective ground-fault current path.

Since the code specifies that all electrical systems be connected to earth in 250.4(A)(1) and 250.4(A)(5) indicates that electrical equipment shall be installed in a manner that is capable of safely carrying the maximum ground-fault current likely to be imposed, it can be said that a ground rod clears a fault.

System grounding, or the intentional connection of a phase or neutral conductor to earth, is for the purpose of controlling the voltage to earth, or ground, within predictable limits. It also provides for a flow of current that will allow detection of an unwanted connection between system conductors and ground which in other words is a ground fault.

I hope this answers the question "How can a ground rod clear a fault???"
 
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