Bonding for flex gas piping

[LarryFine]

Hey, gang. I looked at a kitchen hood system to price wiring it, and the customer mentioned that I had to bond ("run a ground wire") around the flexible section of gas pipe supplying the cooking equipment.

There is about 45' of the yellow-coated flexible gas pipe between the source end (where it comes off of a larger pipe) and the solenoid valve, which then feeds three cooking appliances via about 5-6' of pipe, nipples, and tees.

There is no electrical equipment at all (excluding the light) under the hood. The only thing 'likely to energize' the pipe is the solenoid valve for the suppression system, and the valve has an EGC.

My questions are:

1. Do I need to run such a wire? Is this requirement separate from the typical bonding requirements

2. If so, should this wire connect the short section of piping to the other end of the yellow flex, or to the service EGC?

3. What kind, size, insulation, etc. must this wire consist of?

4. Can a typical brass/bronze pipe clamp be used on the pipe?

5. Can I simply nylon-wire-tie this bonding wire along the flex, since it's being used to parallel the flex?


Danke,

 

[iaov]

Larry does this stove have electronic ignition??

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Larry the manufacturer's instructions require you to bond the pipe according to 250.66. There has been lawsuits over this stuff.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

My questions are:

1. Do I need to run such a wire? Is this requirement separate from the typical bonding requirements

Yes

2. If so, should this wire connect the short section of piping to the other end of the yellow flex, or to the service EGC?

Connects to the service

3. What kind, size, insulation, etc. must this wire consist of?

250.66

4. Can a typical brass/bronze pipe clamp be used on the pipe?

Yes clamped on the brass nut not on the yellow cable

5. Can I simply nylon-wire-tie this bonding wire along the flex, since it's being used to parallel the flex?

No

 

[Buck Parrish]

Larry,
It's not specifially in the NEC. It's a plumbing code. They have to pay you to bond the gas pipe.
Evidently their was a problem with lightning hits near by that would pefforate the yellow piping . Run one solid number cu #4 to the a gas metal fitting nearest the service. And bond it their. No parralell stuf is required. A regular pipe ground clamp is okay. I've been getting by with running a #6 cu to it.

 

[LarryFine]

Larry does this stove have electronic ignition??

No. Not a single wire under the hood. No electrons.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Larry,
It's not specifially in the NEC. It's a plumbing code. They have to pay you to bond the gas pipe.
Evidently their was a problem with lightning hits near by that would pefforate the yellow piping. Run one solid number cu #4 to the a gas metal fitting nearest the service. And bond it their. No parralell stuf is required. A regular pipe ground clamp is okay. I've been getting by with running a #6 cu to it.

Some of the manufacturers require bonding according to 250.66.

 

[LarryFine]

3. What kind, size, insulation, etc. must this wire consist of?

250.66

Based on what? The building used to be a movie theater, and it has what looks to be a 1200 to 1600 amp service.

Remember, I'm not bonding the building's gas piping, only the 5-6' section behind the three cooking appliances.

 

[Buck Parrish]

Based on what?

The plumbing code.:smile: really...

 

[LarryFine]

They have to pay you to bond the gas pipe.

Oh, they will, if I get the job. :wink:

Run one solid number cu #4 to the a gas metal fitting nearest the service.

Again, I'm only bonding the "load" end of the 45' branch to the kitchen, which looks to be 1" flex reduced to 3/4" pipe. The building's main gas pipe is 3 or 4" pipe.

 

[LarryFine]

The plumbing code.:smile:

No, no, no! I mean, sized according to what?

Does the bond for this 5-6' isolated branch of the gas line have to be sized for the entire building's service size?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here read this

SECTION 4.10B —
BONDING CONVENTIONAL
YELLOW-JACKETED TRACPIPE
1. For bonding of the conventional yellowjacketed
TracPipe? system, a bonding
clamp must be attached to the brass
AutoFlare? fitting adapter (adjacent to the
pipe thread area – see Figure 4-21) or to a
black pipe component (pipe or fitting)
located in the same electrically continuous
gas piping system as the AutoFlare?
fitting. The corrugated stainless steel
portion of the gas piping system SHALL
NOT be used as the bonding attachment
point under any circumstances. Bonding
electrode conductor sizing shall be in
accordance with NFPA 70 Article 250
(Table 250-66) Paragraph (A).

Taken from this document Section 4.10B

 

[Buck Parrish]

Where did you get that info?
I am only going by what I have heard on this forum that it is a plumbing code.
If I have a 100 amp service can I run 8 to the gas.

 

[LarryFine]

Here read this

Okay, I read it. Now, unless the original gas service's pipe was already bonded, wouldn't my bonding of the isolated section now increase the risk of damaging the flex, since I'm bonding the "load" end to the electrical service?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Where did you get that info?
I am only going by what I have heard on this forum that it is a plumbing code.
If I have a 100 amp service can I run 8 to the gas.

That info is in the manufacturers installation requirements. I linked the site in the above post.

If #8 is good for 100 amps in 250.66 then you are good to go.

Some other manufacturers say your need a #4 so go figure.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Okay, I read it. Now, unless the original gas service's pipe was already bonded, wouldn't my bonding of the isolated section now increase the risk of damaging the flex, since I'm bonding the "load" end to the electrical service?

Isolated how. If it is connected to the gas piping(black piping) and that pipe is bonded according to 250.66 then you don't need to go any further. You cannot rely on the egc to bond this pipe.

I cannot answer the why's Larry sorry-- I don't know those answers just what is required. They have some new flex pipe that is black made by omegaflex that does not require special bonding. The yellow stuff does.

 

[iwire]

That info is in the manufacturers installation requirements.

IMO The NEC does not require we follow the installation directions of a non-electrical product. :smile:

 

[iaov]

Okay, I read it. Now, unless the original gas service's pipe was already bonded, wouldn't my bonding of the isolated section now increase the risk of damaging the flex, since I'm bonding the "load" end to the electrical service?

I believe so. If the black pipe coming into the building is bonded already there is no need to mess with the yellow stuff IMO. As a common sense thing if there are no electrons running about here, and it is not" likely to become enegized"(words of the BooK), no bonding equired.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

IMO The NEC does not require we follow the installation directions of a non-electrical product. :smile:

You are correct but the job will fail unless someone bonds it. No heating guy or plumber is allowed to enter our panels so there is the catch 22.

It needs to be bonded-- I never said the NEC requires it.

 

[chevyx92]

You are correct but the job will fail unless someone bonds it. No heating guy or plumber is allowed to enter our panels so there is the catch 22.

It needs to be bonded-- I never said the NEC requires it.

And I have done many and never been required to bond any of that. So go figure.