bonding garage door rail?

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WSB123

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Customer requested quote for driving a ground rod near their garage because they have had damage to the garage door opener (4) times in the past year. I explained that I would not drive a ground rod separate from the electrical service. Mike Holt would be proud.
No electrical issues or problems with grounding found. They believe lightning is travelling through slab, but I cannot find damage anywhere - except opener. The garage door rail does touch the concrete. In this case should I cut the bottom of the rail just enough so it does not touch the slab?
The door opener is already GFI protected and I recommended perhaps installing a point of use surge protector at the ceiling outlet. Recommendations? Ideas?
The panel shows no damage and breakers do not trip when these strikes have occurred, with the exception of a few arc faults that are on bedroom circuits only, so the surge is not passing through the panel.

Thanks in advance for anyone that may reply.
 
WSB123 said:
Customer requested quote for driving a ground rod near their garage because they have had damage to the garage door opener (4) times in the past year. I explained that I would not drive a ground rod separate from the electrical service. Mike Holt would be proud.
No electrical issues or problems with grounding found. They believe lightning is travelling through slab, but I cannot find damage anywhere - except opener. The garage door rail does touch the concrete. In this case should I cut the bottom of the rail just enough so it does not touch the slab?
The door opener is already GFI protected and I recommended perhaps installing a point of use surge protector at the ceiling outlet. Recommendations? Ideas?
The panel shows no damage and breakers do not trip when these strikes have occurred, with the exception of a few arc faults that are on bedroom circuits only, so the surge is not passing through the panel.

Thanks in advance for anyone that may reply.
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Is it the same component that is failing?

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petersonra said:
Why not? If they want to pay for it, it is their money. see 250.54. It won't do any good, but it is not a code violation.
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Why not: Because if the problem is caused by lightning current traveling up from the ground to the garage door rails then bonding them to an isolated electrode will almost certainly make it worse.
 
jaggedben said:
Why not: Because if the problem is caused by lightning current traveling up from the ground to the garage door rails then bonding them to an isolated electrode will almost certainly make it worse.
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Still code compliant as Bob described it.
 
jaggedben said:
Why not: Because if the problem is caused by lightning current traveling up from the ground to the garage door rails then bonding them to an isolated electrode will almost certainly make it worse.
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why? the rod is bonded to EGC which is bonded back to the service grounding point.
 
petersonra said:
why? the rod is bonded to EGC which is bonded back to the service grounding point.
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Actually nobody said that. The customer's proposal in the OP was to ground the garage rail, not bond it (notwithstanding the subject title). But even if there is an EGC, just more reason that lightning current might potentially take that path. Auxilliary rods are allowed because some manufacturers stupidly require them, so they put it in the code to avoid a conflict with 110.3(B). But they are never a good idea. I'm with Mike Holt on this.
 
infinity said:
Still code compliant as Bob described it.
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I didn't say it wasn't, but I would never use that as an excuse to take money from a customer while knowingly creating a greater danger to them and/or their property. Besides it being just wrong, I can get sued for things that aren't code violations.
 
WSB123 said:
Customer requested quote for driving a ground rod near their garage because they have had damage to the garage door opener (4) times in the past year... They believe lightning is traveling through slab.
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If that were really the case, what would a ground rod do? Doesn't the slab sit on the ground? Isn't concrete conductive? Doesn't a ground rod get pounded into the ground? :roll:

What are the facts for this garage? Attached or not? How is it wired? How far from the panel? How old is the garage and opener?

-Hal
 
the rails? as in the side rails the door panels wheels ride in? How would that connect to the door opener? is the path ground --> concrete --> wheels --> trolly arm --> opener?

you dont need phys damage to have electrical damage from non-direct lightning strike.

but it sound too fishy. do they get hit that often?

what type of poco do they have, new updated on the poco delivery side or perhaps old crap that is subject to ring wave attacks?

i was thinking the same as post #13, but you never know, some layer of earth that has higher ohms perhaps, and if you drive metal ~10+ft into the ground you might create a lower ohms path.
 
Daniel malack said:
Not code compliant. Where is the code that says drive a separate ground from the electrical service? Everything I read is to ground to the service.
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This has nothing to do with the service. Bob posted the section in post #4 for auxiliary electrodes.
 
WSB123 said:
...
The door opener is already GFI protected and I recommended perhaps installing a point of use surge protector at the ceiling outlet. ...
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+1

The panel shows no damage and breakers do not trip when these strikes have occurred, with the exception of a few arc faults that are on bedroom circuits only, so the surge is not passing through the panel.
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You can't be sure of that statement. Some electronic devices are just more susceptible to surge damage than others. Some electronics even use the EGC to connect to the ground plane of the PCB's... so the surge can be traveling through the EGC and not the hots or neutrals.
 
Attaching a ground rod to the door track is not even a direct supplemental ground for electrical equipment, it likely does have a circuit via door rollers, door frame, door operator and then to the EGC of the door operator power supply, but certainly isn't what you would call a solid bond between the rod and the EGC. One may get just as good of an electrode by plugging in a metal framed machine that sits directly on the ground.

Installing such rod is not a NEC violation IMO. I also don't believe it will solve the problems they are having with that door opener.

One might consider starting with some even more basic measurements - like what is the input voltage to this thing? Most are 120 volt nominal rated, is there a bad neutral possibly causing problems with voltage? Might need to check voltage with and without load to determine that one.

Otherwise many of these appliances probably do have some surge protection built into them, but is still not a bad idea to have a whole house protector to shunt some incoming surges to at least reduce the effects you may see at the appliance.
 
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