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BONDING GONE WILD - Take a look at this

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tortuga

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
One thing they always leave out on these diagrams and EC's often overlook when doing service upgrades on older buildings is the communications bonding 800.100.
 
tortuga

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
ptonsparky said:
Do we have to make those connections, or just supply the bar?
I have made them if they are close, but not so inclined if they are on the other end of the building.
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Yeah good question. On new builds yeah the communications utility makes the install. On a renovation of an existing building if an EC is relocating a service and installing a new Grounding Electrode System I'd think it would be part of the EC's job to make sure all the communications grounds are tied into the new system.
But yeah if the existing communications service is on the other side of a large building from a new GES that is not small task. I bet each thinks its the others job and it does not get done.
 
J

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
If the comms ground(s) are connected to something I replace, like the old service panel, I will reconnect it to the new bonding bridge. If it's connected elsewhere, I'm not touching their stuff.
 
electrofelon

electrofelon

Senior Member
Location
Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
jaggedben said:
Guys it's 250.104(B).

My last response was facetious because I've seen the argument that the appliance(s) can make the bond. But that assumes your gas appliances have electrical connections. I've worked in home in the last 5 years that only had pilot-light appliances.
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Common Sense would say if an appliance doesn't have electric, then the gas piping isn't likely to become energized and that doesn't need to be bonded. Now in reality pretty much every inspector seems to not see it that way 😠
 
M

ModbusMan

Member
Location
Cleveland, OH
Occupation
Building Automation Engineer
jaggedben said:
But you're missing the larger point. Who says the oven isn't electric while the remaining gas appliances are a piezo generator water heater and an old gravity furnace? You can't assume appliances bond the gas if you haven't looked at them.
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Err... the point was "Except for water heaters, I've never seen a gas appliance that didn't also have 120 going to it, and was merely curious about how said appliance might function.
 
mtnelect

mtnelect

HVAC & Electrical Contractor
Location
Southern California
Occupation
Contractor, C10 & C20 - Semi Retired
infinity said:
Nothing that I know of but I did at one time have an inspector ask for a bonding jumper to be removed on a service upgrade. He didn't like the black gas pipe on the HWH being externally bonded for some reason. I wrote a PI a few code cycles ago to clarify that it wasn't required but it got rejected.
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Don't use that term "Rejected" anymore. The new term is "Resolved". Rejected is not woke, resolved is more friendly and woke.
 
tortuga

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
electrofelon said:
Common Sense would say if an appliance doesn't have electric, then the gas piping isn't likely to become energized and that doesn't need to be bonded. Now in reality pretty much every inspector seems to not see it that way 😠
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Brought this up with an inspector on a old early 1900's 4 unit apartment house with you name it knob and tube, BX cable, ungrounded NM and old schedule 40 gas pipe, inspectors concern is the old wiring could energize the pipe, just as well as the gas appliance.
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
mtnelect said:
Don't use that term "Rejected" anymore. The new term is "Resolved". Rejected is not woke, resolved is more friendly and woke.
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When you submitted the proposal is was either reject(ed) or accept(ed). I'll stick with rejected (or reject) the actual word written on the document from the NFPA thanks.
 
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