Bonding of PEX water piping

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dmcgee128

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Would a water system using both PEX and copper be required to bonded per 250-104 of the 99 NEC.

The service riser and stub-outs servicing the water heater, water softner and fixtures etc. are made of copper pipe with the main boddy of the system being made of PEX tubing
 
Re: Bonding of PEX water piping

NEC-2005 250.104(A) Metal Water Piping. The metal water piping system shall be bonded as required...
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We are working with a PEX water piping system with a copper manifold. Does this code really apply? How big would a fitting need to be to be grounded?
 
Re: Bonding of PEX water piping

George IMO a simple metal manifold connected only to PEX is not a "metal water piping system

How much metal water pipe does it take before it becomes a system I have no idea. :roll:
 
Re: Bonding of PEX water piping

Think the wording of the code is strong enough to tell the AHJ to stick it in his ear?

[ January 05, 2005, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: Bonding of PEX water piping

Like I said, I would never dream of enforcing it. The one thing that is difficult about this section os the lack of te term "likely to become energized". I really don't think the intent is to bond every small section of metal pipe though.
 
Re: Bonding of PEX water piping

Think a proposal is in order?

Exception: Metallic components of primarily non-metallic water piping systems shall not be required to be bonded where not likely to become energized.
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Re: Bonding of PEX water piping

I'm not sure that an exception is needed. I honestly think common sense on the part of your AHJ is what is missing. You can quote me on that.
 
Re: Bonding of PEX water piping

I utterly agree, but it seems that it's catching. Grounding and bonding, being the enigma that it is, begets some seriously weird interpretations. I was told to bond the handles of a PEX-supplied jetted bathtub a while back, in a totally different jurisdiction. That had me scratching my head. "The motor's fine, but don't forget to bond those..."
 
Re: Bonding of PEX water piping

Are you talking about a hot tub, the bonding requirements are different.

Check out 680.74
 
Re: Bonding of PEX water piping

Jetted bathtub. A regular bathtub in a master bathroom with a recirculating motor and plastic secondary plumbing for the jet nozzles. The normal hot/cold handles were to be bonded, even though they weren't in proximity to the motor, and were supplied with PEX.
 
Re: Bonding of PEX water piping

However the energized issue is what throws a rip in it if you are talking about hot tubs and so on.

[ January 06, 2005, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: radiopet ]
 
Re: Bonding of PEX water piping

NEC-2005 250.104(A) Metal Water Piping. The metal water piping system shall be bonded as required...
The isolated metal stub outs are not a metal piping system, they do not have to be bonded. In washington state we have a state code rule that clarifies this.
 
Re: Bonding of PEX water piping

So are you saying that bringing the rest of the nation to that interpretation is a good idea, Tom? :) How is your state code written?
 
Re: Bonding of PEX water piping

250-104- in my opinion expresses the idea of metal water piping which would constitute a part of the grounding systems since you are required to bond to it.

HOwever, in my opinion PEX is not a metal water piping system and thus at no point in the system beyond the entrace of the dwelling is needed to ground to it or it's metal joint portions.

Now I could be wrong but in our area they require if the water pipe coming into the dwelling is metal and then switches over to PEX...that you ground to the entrance and no need to ground anywhere else in the PEX system.

I do not think 250-104 cover the idea of PEX as the individual units. it refers to Multiple Occ. units that are derived from seperate systems with a non-metalic piping but nothing about the individual unit which would leave you back at the original theory.

Personally as a instructor we teach that the pipe coming into the dwelling is most likely metalized and should be grounded to within the required distance but before it changes over to PEX throughout the dwelling.

NO inspector to date has rejected this idea in our AHJ...Keep in mind we are still working to the 1999 NEC in our area.

[ January 09, 2005, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: radiopet ]
 
Re: Bonding of PEX water piping

Now I could be wrong but in our area they require if the water pipe coming into the dwelling is metal and then switches over to PEX...that you ground to the entrance and no need to ground anywhere else in the PEX system.
Click to expand...
Absolutely.
NO inspector to date has rejected this idea in our AHJ.
Click to expand...
But I've dealt with it. :(
 
Re: Bonding of PEX water piping

hey george....you know it is the same old thing...lol...Give a man/woman power.....It can be abused...lol..but seriously they are simply here to help us and make it safe....

but seriously...When a AHJ gets something in their mind it is hard to go against them ( some inspectors..not all )...in other words if you do the NEXT job gets harder and harder.....if you know what I mean....

Not that ALL hold a grudge..but it can happen as it did for me...but I am not mad as we have become good friends since.

I did this back in 1999 when I did a commercial retail center and placed a service panel in a bathroom...they said it could not but the code says in dwelling units it can't...and so on...anyway I went above them and to the state and it also happened to be a oriental rug place with heavy large rugs on the wall..which is another reason I did it...it was a HUGE bathroom like 12 x 10...anyway I won and had to deal with the backlash for months....I knew the rule and found a way to work around it per the code but again felt the backlash from it...since they knew I was a instructor also...

[ January 09, 2005, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: radiopet ]
 
Re: Bonding of PEX water piping

On the load side of the cold water meter (if the meter is located inside the building), you are not grounding, but bonding the water piping system. As in this thread, the water piping system is plastic and would not require bonding as per 250.104.
As Bob has mentioned, there is no real need to bond to the cold and hot water stub pipes from a basin (if the water piping "system" is plastic), how likely is it they will become energized?

Would you require the water stubs (if metallic) from a jacuzzi (hydromassage tub) to be bonded, even if the water piping system is plastic?

Pierre
 
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