I have installed a 200 amp service entrance on a new home. The home has city water that enters the home in the basement and is in "Pex" plastic tubing. From there the plumbers have installed about 2 ft of copper tubing, for rigidity to help with installing a water meter, and another 2 ft of pipe above the water meter for the same reason,rigidity. Both pieces of copper tubing have two fasteners,each, fastened to the concrete wall. Pex, plastic tubing, is the tubing that provides water for the entire home. I was told today that I needed to run a #6 bare copper from the breaker box and connect to each 2 ft piece of copper tubing. I asked what the purpose of installing this was for because bonding this was of no value because it is a plastic pipe system. He said there was "no exception " to bonding this water system AND that "what if" someone was to wrap an extension cord around it, and the cord was frayed, causing said person to get shocked or killed. I was so dumbfounded by his response that I just said "OK" consider it done. Could anyone give me a code reference so that I don't have to drive 4 hours out of my way ever again to appease this type of situation ? With this kind of thinking wouldn't I also have to bond all the outside water spigots, copper tubing at the refrigerator, all the metal clips that are used to connect the pipes together. Weather I'm right or wrong I would like to know where the code is on this Thank you, in advance, for any insight you can share with me on this
Bonding water pipe to service panel
- Thread starter j f go
- Start date
- Status
The bonding requirement for bonding internal water piping falls under 250.104(A) and addresses "metal water piping system". Most inspectors would not consider the short sections of piping you have to constitute a "system" any more than short sections of copper often at the water heater,\
That said, approval is up to the AHJ. You can, of course, normally appeal his ruling to his supervisor. It may depend on local interpretation of the Code.
That said, approval is up to the AHJ. You can, of course, normally appeal his ruling to his supervisor. It may depend on local interpretation of the Code.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I agree, the 2' pieces of interior piping are not a system and do not require bonding however if the water main from the city water supply is metal then it would be an electrode and must be connected to the GES.
Water line from the street is plastic as well. The only "metal" is the two, 2 ft.
sections of copper tubing and the meter itself.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Then no bonding is required.
I agree the #6 bonding is not required because it is not a "water piping system". If he calls it a system then you need to bond every plumbing fixture.
There are a lot of "what If" scenarios that you play out.
What is someone takes your #6 bonding off?
What is someone does NOT use an extension cord on that 2' piece of piping?
Cop: You need to slow down to 35MPH in this 45MPH zone.
Me: Why?
Cop: It may start snowing.
Me: But we are in Scottsdale Arizona and it is August.
Cop: Well what if it it does snow?
There are a lot of "what If" scenarios that you play out.
What is someone takes your #6 bonding off?
What is someone does NOT use an extension cord on that 2' piece of piping?
Cop: You need to slow down to 35MPH in this 45MPH zone.
Me: Why?
Cop: It may start snowing.
Me: But we are in Scottsdale Arizona and it is August.
Cop: Well what if it it does snow?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I also agree- no bonding required.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
Unless there is some obvious reason that the section is "likely to become energized".
Like maybe a smart gas meter that needs a line voltage power cord.
mobile
I don't think they will be installing a smart gas meter on that water line but I guess I could add that to their "what if" thinking. Thank you all for confirming my thought on this. If I did not go today,and do as they asked, they were going to put the closing off because no C. of O. no closing. They had me by my short hairs and they knew it. Every time that a closing gets put off it cost the homeowner 300 bucks. Plus I don't get my pay either. Wish I knew how to get an exception to this in the code, but I'd probably be retired before it got through. Again, Thank You all.Unless there is some obvious reason that the section is "likely to become energized".
Like maybe a smart gas meter that needs a line voltage power cord.
mobile
Dzboyce
Senior Member
- Location
- Royal City, WA
- Occupation
- Washington 03 Electrician & plumber
I just looked at 250.52A8 and 250.53D. I think the operative word is "underground". The metal pipe had to be in the ground. If the metal pipe does not extend underground, it is not an electrode permitted for grounding.
There's your argument.
There's your argument.
I agree with you on that but they weren't asking me to use it as a grounding electrode, they wanted me to bond it to the service.
Dzboyce
Senior Member
- Location
- Royal City, WA
- Occupation
- Washington 03 Electrician & plumber
Ok. 250.4B3 says electrically conductive materials that are Likely to become energized shall be connected together..... I think that's a stretch,
as previously cited 250.104A requires bonding of the metal water piping system. Again it's a stretch to say that the two 2 ft long pieces of copper are a system. If they are, then every metal fixture would be a system also,
as previously cited 250.104A requires bonding of the metal water piping system. Again it's a stretch to say that the two 2 ft long pieces of copper are a system. If they are, then every metal fixture would be a system also,
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
The first one isn't a stretch it simply does not apply, in fact neither of these things apply so the code is very clear, no bonding is required.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
The inspector has an advanced case of HUA Syndrome. No cure.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
If this is the local AHJ, you either need to get that particular inspector straightened out or the lead person if that is who is enforcing it that way. You may need the help of professional organizations - like a local contractor association, IAIE, or even get them to read this site could be a start. Until you can find a way to convince whoever that a majority of those in the electrical trades don't feel it is necessary or a NEC requirement they may not like being told they are wrong and will resist even looking into it further.
Thank you all for responding and confirming my take on this. I'm still going to have to do this each and every time because I don't see an argument that would make him see the error of his thinking. Guess I will have to find a way to get an exception into the code. Some people are just boneheads and you can't get them to see the forest through the trees.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
It is already in the NEC, what they want you to bond is isolated metal piping - not a metallic piping system. If you have a system that is mostly metal piping you do need to bond around non conductive components of the system.
If your isolated sections are likely to become energized - they only need to be bonded to the EGC of whatever circuit is likely to energize them. That is how you would have a bond at short sections of metal pipe at a water heater, dishwasher, ice maker, well pump, booster pump etc. in an otherwise non metallic piping system.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
No exception needed, someone is trying to enforce something that is not in the NEC. There are several interpretive sections in the NEC where the AHJ could see it one way or another, this isn't one of them.
Thank you. As I am sure you are aware, that is exactly what I needed.
- Status