Boom , boom out go the lights

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cadpoint

cadpoint

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Location
Durham, NC
Having read a few posting this weekend on AFCI and wired some last week. It dawned on my that everything in the Condo's was protected per dwelling unit per a circuit.

Now my question is can you have the lights on one AFCI, and share it with another dwell'n unit as long as 210.12 is maintained and 210.19 (both 2005) is also maintained and outlets on another, now I know it says in the (2005) code book, .. 15 - 20 supplying outlets installed w/ AFCI.

But local AHJ (Durham) 2002 per internet (here)
210.12 The NEC now requires arc-fault protection on all branch circuits supplying 125 v. 15- 20 amperage outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms.(this would include closet lights and smoke alarms.) Truely the " ( ) " is a included addendum AKA an add-on. (Sorry, I didn't look at 2002 NFPA.)

Now I know it only says outlet (2005) don't just think receptacles, I checked Art. 100.

Seems to me just un safe to have everything on one service, except for work, I can only remember maybe twice I tripped an outlet service in my house and I didn't loose the lights. Something for 2011 ?

Oh, no return letter yet from the Chief Inspector of the Bull City on their 2002 web page ? ? :rolleyes:
 
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cadpoint said:
Now my question is can you have the lights on one AFCI, and share it with another dwell'n unit ?
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I'd say yes, as long as both tennants have access to the overcurrent device and the landlord pays the power bill.
 
I?m not sure I understand what you are asking. If you are asking if the lights in a bedroom can be on one AFCI circuit, and if the receptacle outlets can be on a separate AFCI circuit, that is certainly acceptable. But if you are asking if a single AFCI circuit can provide power to the lights in the bedrooms of two or more separate dwelling units, I believe that that is not allowed. I do not have a copy of the NEC with me at home, but I believe that you cannot share circuits between dwelling units. Perhaps someone else can chime in with a code reference?

By the way, where did you get that link to the 2002 NEC changes? I mean, what is its source authority. We may have debated this subject on this Forum already, and I don?t want to reopen old debates, but I believe that a bedroom closet is not part of the bedroom. If you have a circuit supplying a closet light, and if it does not supply any outlets within the bedroom itself, then it is my opinion that that circuit need not have AFCI protection. Does anyone recall if this has been beaten to death yet? Was there a clear winner on the question?
 
charlie b said:
I do not have a copy of the NEC with me at home, but I believe that you cannot share circuits between dwelling units.
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I don't know that to be true. It's common to not do that, but I'm aware of nothing in the NEC that would prevent it.
 
210.25 would seem to prevent it IMO although that may not really be what it was aimed at.

In my area there is no such thing as landlord payed for power in new construction, each dwelling unit gets it's own meter and panel.
 
charlie b said:
I?m not sure I understand what you are asking. If you are asking if the lights in a bedroom can be on one AFCI circuit, and if the receptacle outlets can be on a separate AFCI circuit, that is certainly acceptable. But if you are asking if a single AFCI circuit can provide power to the lights in the bedrooms of two or more separate dwelling units, I believe that that is not allowed. ?
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Thats exactly what I'm asking

I do not have a copy of the NEC with me at home, but I believe that you cannot share circuits between dwelling units. Perhaps someone else can chime in with a code reference?
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OK but that doesn't say that in 210.12

By the way, where did you get that link to the 2002 NEC changes? I mean, what is its source authority. We may have debated this subject on this Forum already, and I don?t want to reopen old debates, but I believe that a bedroom closet is not part of the bedroom. If you have a circuit supplying a closet light, and if it does not supply any outlets within the bedroom itself, then it is my opinion that that circuit need not have AFCI protection. Does anyone recall if this has been beaten to death yet? Was there a clear winner on the question?
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The link in Durham City/county AHJ, and I'm not here try'n to raise the dead ...

No not typo, My CPU Gummed up, I meant can the AFCI be shared from dwelling unit Bedroom. to dwelling unit Bedroom, OR bedroom to bedroom, a Condo or a single family dwelling, not across multiply family situations.... thanks everyone ...

I'll just have to ASK the INSPECTOR ... :) ...
 
You are allowed to supply more than one bedroom on a single AFI protected circuit.

We prefer to install separate circuits for bedroom lighting and receptacle outlets to prevent from being plunged into total darkness should a breaker trip, but are not required to do so.
 
I'm not sure I understand the question but 210.25 is clear if we are talking seperate dwellings:-?
 
Right, kbsparky

I'm more of the two circuits type, thats nice to know, thats the way I'm thinking... sorry I gummed up the Post again in respects to answering Charlie.

Its just a thought I been rolling with since the condo's.

I got confused (easily done) thinking outloud, what was done, to whats required, via the AHJ, whats stated and not stated in the NFPA CODE!
...Reading on...

I just think its a valid, empty space, that will get addressed, oh no there I go thinking again ... with the way there building the Mc Houses... GO with it...
 
The requirement has been in place since the 2002 NEC for all circuits supplying power to outlets in bedrooms to have AFCI protection. 1999 NEC only required circuits supplying receptacles in bedrooms to have this protection.
As mentioned by other replies here, you may share the circuit with other bedrooms in the same dwelling with no problem, and you may have outlets in other rooms (unless disallowed by some other article) on the AFCI circuits, even though it may not be required.
As far as the (*) in the explanation of the 'new' codes, that was simply an explanation of the requirement (including smoke detectors and lights) and only applies to those circuits which supply such outlets in bedrooms. The closet lights would normally not be included here unless the circuit serving the closet light(s) also serves some other outlet in the bedroom itself.
The other issues on sharing circuits or having lights and receptacles and maybe even the smoke detectors on their own separate circuits are simply design choices and the code does not provide any guidance or input on this.
 
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