Box Fill

[Rick 0920]

Has anyone ever used a scrap piece of 14-3 or 12-3 to loop between receptacles? It's better than just scrapping a piece of cable for less than what we paid for it. My question is, if I cap off the red wire instead of cutting it off, does that conductor count as an allowance for box fill? The obvious answer is yes, but if you look at the way it is written in 314.16 (B)(1), I'm not convinced that you would have to count it. Any thoughts on this?

 

[augie47]

I agree according to (B)(1) it must be counted.

 

[Rick 0920]

I agree according to (B)(1) it must be counted.

The way I'm reading it, it does originate from outside of the box. However, it doesn't terminate. It isn't spliced. And it definitely doesn't pass through the box.

 

[Rick 0920]

I agree according to (B)(1) it must be counted.

I'm not saying that "common sense" wouldn't tell us to not count the conductor as it takes up space. But I've never been told that the NEC is common sense. I'm just looking at it as I would "Charlie's Rule."

 

[wwhitney]

The way I'm reading it, it does originate from outside of the box. However, it doesn't terminate.

Capping off a wire is terminating it. The termination doesn't have to be a connection to something, it just has to be a way to let the conductor safely end.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Rick 0920]

Capping off a wire is terminating it. The termination doesn't have to be a connection to something, it just has to be a way to let the conductor safely end.

Cheers, Wayne

Is there a definition for that, or is that just an interpretation?

 

[wwhitney]

Is there a definition for that, or is that just an interpretation?

Any dictionary? E.g. "the action of bringing something or coming to an end." The conductor ends at the cap.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Rick 0920]

I would love to see the look on an inspectors face if I said, "Let's consult Webster on this one."

 

[jim dungar]

Any dictionary? E.g. "the action of bringing something or coming to an end." The conductor ends at the cap.

Cheers, Wayne

So, does that mean it isn't counted if it is just the 'bare' end hanging in the box?

 

[Rick 0920]

So, does that mean it isn't counted if it is just the 'bare' end hanging in the box?

Good question!

 

[infinity]

Common sense aside the requirement is that if it does two things in needs to be counted. "Each conductor that originates outside the box and terminates or is spliced within the box ". It must start outside the box AND terminate in the box. If the spare conductor is not terminating within the box then what is it doing?

 

[wwhitney]

So, does that mean it isn't counted if it is just the 'bare' end hanging in the box?

I'd say a bare "end" is still a termination, the conductor obviously terminates there and doesn't continue.

Regardless, once you fix the violation by properly terminating the conductor, e.g. with a wire nut, it's definitely a termination.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[jim dungar]

I'd say a bare "end" is still a termination, the conductor obviously terminates there and doesn't continue.

Regardless, once you fix the violation by properly terminating the conductor, e.g. with a wire nut, it's definitely a termination.

Cheers, Wayne

Why is a wirenut required?
I know I would use one, but I consider it a design choice.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't understand the argument here. What's the difference if the conductor ends on a device or is terminated into a wirenut. I believe the intent here is have enough room in the box if, someday, the wire were put to use.

 

[wwhitney]

Why is a wirenut required?

110.14(B): "All splices and joints and the free ends of conductors shall be covered with an insulation equivalent to that of the conductors or with an identified insulating device."

Cheers, Wayne

 

[infinity]

110.14(B): "All splices and joints and the free ends of conductors shall be covered with an insulation equivalent to that of the conductors or with an identified insulating device."

You can use tape too.

 

[LarryFine]

 

[jim dungar]

I don't understand the argument here. What's the difference if the conductor ends on a device or is terminated into a wirenut. I believe the intent here is have enough room in the box if, someday, the wire were put to use.

How do you know the conductors may be used? Isn't it possible they are abandoned?

 

[LarryFine]

How do you know the conductors may be used? Isn't it possible they are abandoned?

Does one preclude the other?

 

[wwhitney]

How do you know the conductors may be used? Isn't it possible they are abandoned?

Doesn't matter. If the conductor terminates (ends) within the box, and originates outside the box, it gets counted once for box fill per 314.16(B)(1).

Cheers, Wayne