goingtohurt
Member
I'm trying to find the code reference not allowing j boxes to be concealed behind sheet rock. Anybody
Boxes Behind Sheetrock
- Thread starter goingtohurt
- Start date
- Status
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
314.29
314.29
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
Wdy would anyone want to bury a box in the first place.
Wdy would anyone want to bury a box in the first place.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
I have also heard that from customers over the years.I always tell them the same thing. I am not permitted to cover any box over ,period.After I get an inspection (if required ) Or when I am done this is your house to do as you please.
The most frequent one is why are there so many outlets in my house I don`t need that many :roll:
I have also heard that from customers over the years.I always tell them the same thing. I am not permitted to cover any box over ,period.After I get an inspection (if required ) Or when I am done this is your house to do as you please.
The most frequent one is why are there so many outlets in my house I don`t need that many :roll:
B
bthielen
Guest
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
Allenwayne,
They must figure they only need one in each room because they have extension cords with a zip-strips.
Do you think it is risky and perhaps even inappropriate to tell a customer what they do after you leave...? With all due respect it seems the responsible thing to do would be to just tell them you can't bury the boxes and leave it at that.
I would imagine an attorney would be able to use that statement against you in the event of a suit. I can just hear the testimony, "He told us he wouldn't do it but we could do what we wanted after he left."
Bob
Allenwayne,
They must figure they only need one in each room because they have extension cords with a zip-strips.
Do you think it is risky and perhaps even inappropriate to tell a customer what they do after you leave...? With all due respect it seems the responsible thing to do would be to just tell them you can't bury the boxes and leave it at that.
I would imagine an attorney would be able to use that statement against you in the event of a suit. I can just hear the testimony, "He told us he wouldn't do it but we could do what we wanted after he left."
Bob
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
Oh i inform them that it is against code to bury receptacles or delete receptacles that they don`t want in a room but I make sure i tell them that as long as my name is on it when I leave it is to code.Then what happens after is thier problem.
Come on we all know that a homeowner will do as they please. but when I leave it is code compliant ,what they do after they will do regardless.Do I think it is appropriate well I don`t put it out there that they can remove part of my install.What I say is ,I installed what is required by code and it is thier home to do as they want but do as they want after I am long gone.
Oh i inform them that it is against code to bury receptacles or delete receptacles that they don`t want in a room but I make sure i tell them that as long as my name is on it when I leave it is to code.Then what happens after is thier problem.
Come on we all know that a homeowner will do as they please. but when I leave it is code compliant ,what they do after they will do regardless.Do I think it is appropriate well I don`t put it out there that they can remove part of my install.What I say is ,I installed what is required by code and it is thier home to do as they want but do as they want after I am long gone.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
You never met my mother-in-law !!! Every time she wallpapered, if she didn't like where a receptacle ended up she would remove it and paper over the hole. Go figure !
B
bthielen
Guest
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
You are correct. A lawyer can and will argue anything under the sun, as well they should, that is what we pay them to do. Whether what a HO does is entirely their business well, unfortunately that is a thing of the past. What we do is not always purely our own business. It's still a violation of our laws regardless whether one gets caught or not, assuming the code in your area has been adopted as law and not just a highly recommended code to follow.
We have customers asking us to tell them how to bypass our machinery's safety circuits so they can run the machine while the perimeter guard package is open. As we were informed by our attorney, if we provide our customers with any information that helps them defeat the safety features, we are setting our company up for litigation in the event someone was to get hurt as a result. It's bad enough when they bypass the systems without our knowledge, much less to help them do it.
I just hope allenwayne is very careful.
Bob
You are correct. A lawyer can and will argue anything under the sun, as well they should, that is what we pay them to do. Whether what a HO does is entirely their business well, unfortunately that is a thing of the past. What we do is not always purely our own business. It's still a violation of our laws regardless whether one gets caught or not, assuming the code in your area has been adopted as law and not just a highly recommended code to follow.
We have customers asking us to tell them how to bypass our machinery's safety circuits so they can run the machine while the perimeter guard package is open. As we were informed by our attorney, if we provide our customers with any information that helps them defeat the safety features, we are setting our company up for litigation in the event someone was to get hurt as a result. It's bad enough when they bypass the systems without our knowledge, much less to help them do it.
I just hope allenwayne is very careful.
Bob
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
IMO, the appropriate thing to do is put on your most somber, serious face, and tell them about burying boxes:
1. The NEC states it is not a safe practice/
2. They have paid for these receptacles.
3. They may use them someday.
4. Someday the buried splice may need maintenance, and the person troubleshooting it won't be able to find it.
5. Whereas they might have a chance of noticing a fire starting in the box if smoke enters the room from the box, they don't have any warning if it is buried until it burns it's way through a 45-minute firewall.
Somehow, I believe that people may behave differently if you make a short attempt to dissuade them from doing it, instead of a wink and condoning it.
They sure will. So why give them an engraved invitation to do so?
IMO, the appropriate thing to do is put on your most somber, serious face, and tell them about burying boxes:
1. The NEC states it is not a safe practice/
2. They have paid for these receptacles.
3. They may use them someday.
4. Someday the buried splice may need maintenance, and the person troubleshooting it won't be able to find it.
5. Whereas they might have a chance of noticing a fire starting in the box if smoke enters the room from the box, they don't have any warning if it is buried until it burns it's way through a 45-minute firewall.
Somehow, I believe that people may behave differently if you make a short attempt to dissuade them from doing it, instead of a wink and condoning it.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
Also explain that the alternative to unwanted blank plates is running new cables from the last box to the next one, including whatever wall repairing may be required.
Also explain that the alternative to unwanted blank plates is running new cables from the last box to the next one, including whatever wall repairing may be required.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
George people will do as they please no matter what you put on their plate.As soon a the converstaion starts with why are you putting that there.I start by saying this is required by code and if every box I install is going to be a question and answer period,then I will have to charge for the time.
Somewhere down the line it usually gets to the point that didn`t sit to well with you about what is done after I leave.That usually ends the time wasting conversation that is costing me $$.Nice is nice but nice doesn`t pay the bills.
Call it rude or anything else you want but the bottom line is what was the profit on that job.
George people will do as they please no matter what you put on their plate.As soon a the converstaion starts with why are you putting that there.I start by saying this is required by code and if every box I install is going to be a question and answer period,then I will have to charge for the time.
Somewhere down the line it usually gets to the point that didn`t sit to well with you about what is done after I leave.That usually ends the time wasting conversation that is costing me $$.Nice is nice but nice doesn`t pay the bills.
Call it rude or anything else you want but the bottom line is what was the profit on that job.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
Only box i think should be allowed barried is if its just an unused end of a circuit that has no other wires and not serving to meet any code required outlet.But it is still illegal.I simply tell customer i can't do it.Use to work for a company that would have me do that often on remodels.Glad i nolonger work for him.
Only box i think should be allowed barried is if its just an unused end of a circuit that has no other wires and not serving to meet any code required outlet.But it is still illegal.I simply tell customer i can't do it.Use to work for a company that would have me do that often on remodels.Glad i nolonger work for him.
electric_instructor
Senior Member
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
Speaking of time & money?
I once worked in a home that was built in the 20's. I was asked to move a lighting outlet, over a sink.
The home had been wired in conduit (ya think thats great huh), lord knows who or when, much less why, SOMEBODY had burried a 4X4 sq. box, not just in the wall, since it was lathe and plaster. They buried it inside the plaster, with no cover (totally filled the box). Obviously this wasn't the first remodel!
I'm not gonna say how many hours it took me to find it! (yes I used a tracer, doesn't work in conduit! LOL)& it was a two story home, with the bathroom being on the second floor.(no attic)
After the fact, I called the business owner, because the homeowner wanted me to COVER IT BACK UP. I was told to inform them that they could do as they pleased after I left.
I no longer work for the company.
Speaking of time & money?
I once worked in a home that was built in the 20's. I was asked to move a lighting outlet, over a sink.
The home had been wired in conduit (ya think thats great huh), lord knows who or when, much less why, SOMEBODY had burried a 4X4 sq. box, not just in the wall, since it was lathe and plaster. They buried it inside the plaster, with no cover (totally filled the box). Obviously this wasn't the first remodel!
I'm not gonna say how many hours it took me to find it! (yes I used a tracer, doesn't work in conduit! LOL)& it was a two story home, with the bathroom being on the second floor.(no attic)
After the fact, I called the business owner, because the homeowner wanted me to COVER IT BACK UP. I was told to inform them that they could do as they pleased after I left.
I no longer work for the company.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
Now there is something we sure agree on.
electric_instructor
Senior Member
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
Many years ago i worked for a company that told me to splice about 6 sets of wires in a ceiling with not even a box.Just wire nuts and tape.Was told just do it and the patchman will be 15 minutes behind you.This was on a new high end home.I no longer work there either.
Many years ago i worked for a company that told me to splice about 6 sets of wires in a ceiling with not even a box.Just wire nuts and tape.Was told just do it and the patchman will be 15 minutes behind you.This was on a new high end home.I no longer work there either.
electric_instructor
Senior Member
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
Good for ALL of us!
Good for ALL of us!
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Boxes Behind Sheetrock
Years ago it was common place to find wall sconces spliced onto and rerouted to ceiling lights ,receps,etc.Like what you found there was no cover just some paper to fill the gaps and plaster filled the entire abortion.
I`m glad that practice isn`t wide spread anymore
Years ago it was common place to find wall sconces spliced onto and rerouted to ceiling lights ,receps,etc.Like what you found there was no cover just some paper to fill the gaps and plaster filled the entire abortion.
I`m glad that practice isn`t wide spread anymore
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