Branch circuit or feeder

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I have incoming electric utility cables feeding switchboard in basement floor and its circuit breakers feed tenants on 3 floors.

One of the circuit breakers feed disconnect which feeds the transformer and panels. What would the circuit be called feeder or branch circuit?

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codequestion said:
I have incoming electric utility cables feeding switchboard in basement floor and its circuit breakers feed tenants on 3 floors.

One of the circuit breakers feed disconnect on entire second floor tenant which feeds the transformer and panels. What would the circuit be called feeder or branch circuit?



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I have incoming electric utility cables feeding switchboard in basement floor and its circuit breakers feed tenants on 3 floors.

One of the circuit breakers feed disconnect on entire second floor tenant which feeds the transformer and panels. What would the circuit from switchboard circuit breaker to disconnect second floor be called feeder or branch circuit?

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Seemingly, per Code, the circuit originating at the last over current device supplying an outlet would be the branch circuit. Any other circuit ahead of that would be feeders.
IMO, the transformer secondary conductors would be just that, transformer secondary conductors.
 
If the circuit in question feeds a disconnect that then feeds a transformer. Which then feeds panels, that then your branch circuits wouldn’t start until you come off the breakers in those panels ? Right


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augie47 said:
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AHJ inspector says circuit from switchboard to disconnect is branch circuit. I have two circuits from switchboard going to same tenant one is going to panelboard and the other to the disconnect then to transformer. Per NEC 2014 Article 225.37 I provided identification thinking that two feeder go into different building. In our AHJ tenanets are separated by firewall hr sufficient to call separate building by IBC. The inspector is saying circuit to disconnect is branch circuit.

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codequestion said:
AHJ inspector says circuit from switchboard to disconnect is branch circuit. I have two circuits from switchboard going to same tenant one is going to panelboard and the other to the disconnect then to transformer. Per NEC 2014 Article 225.37 I provided identification thinking that two feeder go into different building. In our AHJ tenanets are separated by firewall hr sufficient to call separate building by IBC. The inspector is saying circuit to disconnect is branch circuit.

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Maybe you should ask the inspector to sit down with you and read the definition of "Branch Circuit" and "Feeder" together in article 100.

Roger
 
codequestion said:
AHJ inspector says circuit from switchboard to disconnect is branch circuit. I have two circuits from switchboard going to same tenant one is going to panelboard and the other to the disconnect then to transformer. Per NEC 2014 Article 225.37 I provided identification thinking that two feeder go into different building. In our AHJ tenanets are separated by firewall hr sufficient to call separate building by IBC. The inspector is saying circuit to disconnect is branch circuit.Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk
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codequestion said:
Per NEC 2014 Article 225.37 I provided identification thinking that two feeder go into different building.
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codequestion said:
In our AHJ tenanets are separated by firewall hr sufficient to call separate building by IBC.
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codequestion said:
Per NEC 2014 Article 225.37 I provided identification thinking that two feeder go into different building.
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It sounds like you are saying you ran two feeders from the switchboard into what is defined by the IBC as a separate building.
Or are you saying you supplied a separate tenant space with two separate feeders

225.30
 
By the international building codes definitions what is defined as out side of a building.

Here if you are going to define a structure as a separate building by use of a fire wall in contrast to a fire barrier than any thing out side of the building could not be defined as inside of that building.
 
jumper said:
Look at OP.

MDP is in basement feeding upper three floors..
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i see it as confusing since the OP states both Himself and the authority are defining the space as a separate building

My advise to the OP, go back to the Authority and clarify what he wants in regards to two feeders supplying the separate tenant space
 
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225.1 Scope.


This article covers requirements for outside branch circuits and feeders run on or between buildings, structures, or poles on the premises; and electrical equipment and wiring for the supply of utilization equipment that is located on or attached to the outside of buildings, structures, or poles.
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Branch circuit or feeder attached to exterior of structure - sure looks like it is covered by 225 to me. Interior circuit - 225 doesn't apply at all.

Art 225 part II is titled: "Buildings or Other Structures Supplied by a Feeder(s) or Branch Circuit(s)" doesn't appear to apply to OP's installation.

Add:

definitions from art 100

Branch Circuit.
The circuit conductors between the final overcurrent device protecting the circuit and the outlet(s).

Feeder.
All circuit conductors between the service equipment, the source of a separately derived system, or other power supply source and the final branch-circuit overcurrent device.
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Major difference if you can't determine otherwise - a feeder doesn't have any "outlets".
 
kwired said:
Major difference if you can't determine otherwise - a feeder doesn't have any "outlets".
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I respectfully disagree. Some of us feel that the feeder and branch definitions are written in a way that allows some circuits/wires to be both at the same time.

A classic example of this would be a single circuit that feeds a load directly (creating an outlet) and also continues on to feed a fused disconnect or even a panelboard.
Since some of the wires connect a load directly to the upstream disconnect, those are branch wires. Since the same or other wires in the circuit connect one OCPD to another OCPD they are also feeder wires.

Some say that since such a circuit would be both a branch and a feeder it must not be legal in the first place. I say both branch rules and feeder rules apply to the same circuit, and it may not be a great design even if legal.
 
GoldDigger said:
I respectfully disagree. Some of us feel that the feeder and branch definitions are written in a way that allows some circuits/wires to be both at the same time.

A classic example of this would be a single circuit that feeds a load directly (creating an outlet) and also continues on to feed a fused disconnect or even a panelboard.
Since some of the wires connect a load directly to the upstream disconnect, those are branch wires. Since the same or other wires in the circuit connect one OCPD to another OCPD they are also feeder wires.

Some say that since such a circuit would be both a branch and a feeder it must not be legal in the first place. I say both branch rules and feeder rules apply to the same circuit, and it may not be a great design even if legal.
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Though sort of rare, yes that situation isn't clear at all. Been debated on this site with no general consensus of what to call that or if it is NEC permitted either.
 
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