Branch Circuits Ahead of Service Disconnect

[Jaybone812]

Agree. Rewiring the range with 4 wire unless it is difficult due to the building finish is the thing to do. Why not bring th range up to current code?

Why the race to the bottom? A plumber would say this is what needs to be done and this is the cost.

I’m not in disagreement with you at all , and if it came down to pulling a new 4 wire or using 250.130(c) I’d be pulling the new 4 wire feed.but in this case I’d be installing a meter and seperate 200 amp disconnect labeled emergency disconnect not service equipment, and the MBP inside would be the service disconnect and the 3 wire feed would originate at the service and comply with the 2020 nec 250.140(b) exception
Since we are mass guys we don’t even have the option of using 250.130(c) or the 2023 addition of 250.140(b)(5) cuz mass deletes both lol so if 250.140(b)(4) wasn’t applicable because it was fed with a se cable assembly we’d either be using the properly listed equipment and labeling the outdoor emergency/not service equipment , or pulling the 4 wire feed

 

[ShockaBrah]

I’m not in disagreement with you at all , and if it came down to pulling a new 4 wire or using 250.130(c) I’d be pulling the new 4 wire feed.but in this case I’d be installing a meter and seperate 200 amp disconnect labeled emergency disconnect not service equipment, and the MBP inside would be the service disconnect and the 3 wire feed would originate at the service and comply with the 2020 nec 250.140(b) exception
Since we are mass guys we don’t even have the option of using 250.130(c) or the 2023 addition of 250.140(b)(5) cuz mass deletes both lol so if 250.140(b)(4) wasn’t applicable because it was fed with a se cable assembly we’d either be using the properly listed equipment and labeling the outdoor emergency/not service equipment , or pulling the 4 wire feed

so for anyone still interested...I did end up changing the range wire. Had inspection today, and it turns out that I overlooked a state amendment that adds a second exception:
Exception No. 2: For existing branch-circuit installations only where the equipment supplies a dwelling unit(s) and there is no equipment grounding conductor present in the outlet or junction box, the frames of the appliances specified in Exception No. 1 shall be permitted to be connected to the grounded conductor provided all the conditions specified in (1), (2) and (4) of Exception No. 1 are met, the grounded conductor of the circuit supplying the appliance(s) is part of a nonmetallic sheathed cable and it is insulated or covered within the supply enclosure so it does not make contact with any normally non-current-carrying metal parts.

Guess I should have done a little more research but at the end of the day even by mistake we ended up with a better safer installation lol.

And I do like this Square D meter main, cheap, well built and has 8 bus bar spaces and I think it looks a little cleaner to have one enclosure rather than two. (The emergency disconnect label came pre-installed btw or else I would have made sure it was straight lol)

 

[Jaybone812]

so for anyone still interested...I did end up changing the range wire. Had inspection today, and it turns out that I overlooked a state amendment that adds a second exception:
Exception No. 2: For existing branch-circuit installations only where the equipment supplies a dwelling unit(s) and there is no equipment grounding conductor present in the outlet or junction box, the frames of the appliances specified in Exception No. 1 shall be permitted to be connected to the grounded conductor provided all the conditions specified in (1), (2) and (4) of Exception No. 1 are met, the grounded conductor of the circuit supplying the appliance(s) is part of a nonmetallic sheathed cable and it is insulated or covered within the supply enclosure so it does not make contact with any normally non-current-carrying metal parts.

Guess I should have done a little more research but at the end of the day even by mistake we ended up with a better safer installation lol.

And I do like this Square D meter main, cheap, well built and has 8 bus bar spaces and I think it looks a little cleaner to have one enclosure rather than two. (The emergency disconnect label came pre-installed btw or else I would have made sure it was straight lol)

So #3 of the 2020 nec 250.140 exception, seesn to give the same permissions as your local amendment but the langauge is a little differnt , when it says the grounded conductor is insulated or bare and part of a se cable assembly that originates at the service ,
It’s saying that if the grounded conductor is insulated ir does not have to originate from the service , so it can originate at a sub panel if it’s a 3 wire cable assembly with a insulated neutral