Breaker lugs too small for wire?

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George Stolz said:
By saying "at least for this code cycle" you imply that you believe the option is something that should be removed for future codes. Why do you feel this way? It's a perfectly safe, compliant installation.
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Pigtailig to lights and recepticals with smaller wire is fine but splicing at the source doesnt seem like the best way to go I understand in situations there may not be an alternative are stab in recepticals compliant yes have they limit there use over the years buy eliminating #12 for this application ? Ide prefer ordering a breaker with larger lugs Will they or should they look at this in the future maybe only time will tell
 
I don't see a parallel between backstabbed receptacles and pigtailing an upsized feeder at all. One has a questionable termination method, the other does not.
 
AV ELECTRIC said:
...but splicing at the source doesn't seem like the best way to go ...
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I guess I'm confused. The amount of power available at the source and the amount of power at the end are the same (essentially). Why would splicing at the beginning be worse than splicing at the end?

Truth be told ... when performing arc flash calculations at a prior job I found that the arc flash hazards were much greater the further away from the breaker you were. This was due to the time lag of the arc incident and the breaker shutting down. Theoretically, this means that the closer the splice (weak point) is to the protective device the better.

Thoughts?
 
AV ELECTRIC said:
Pigtailig to lights and recepticals with smaller wire is fine but splicing at the source doesnt seem like the best way to go I understand in situations there may not be an alternative are stab in recepticals compliant yes have they limit there use over the years buy eliminating #12 for this application ? Ide prefer ordering a breaker with larger lugs Will they or should they look at this in the future maybe only time will tell
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Picture this, we do a lot of large buildings, on one large warehouse the prints called for 4 AWG copper to supply the roof top 20 amp 125 volt service receptacles.

How would you connect a 4 AWG to a standard 20 amp 125 volt breaker?
 
George Stolz said:
I don't see a parallel between backstabbed receptacles and pigtailing an upsized feeder at all. One has a questionable termination method, the other does not.
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Its just a comment on how the code evolves over the years as we find out new information on material and installation and its relation to safety
 
ptrip said:
I guess I'm confused. The amount of power available at the source and the amount of power at the end are the same (essentially). Why would splicing at the beginning be worse than splicing at the end?

Truth be told ... when performing arc flash calculations at a prior job I found that the arc flash hazards were much greater the further away from the breaker you were. This was due to the time lag of the arc incident and the breaker shutting down. Theoretically, this means that the closer the splice (weak point) is to the protective device the better.

Thoughts?
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The consensus says you are correct. Is this a big deal as pertaining to voltage drop ? probably not . I prefer to limit splices as much as i can especially with higher loads.
 
iwire said:
Picture this, we do a lot of large buildings, on one large warehouse the prints called for 4 AWG copper to supply the roof top 20 amp 125 volt service receptacles.

How would you connect a 4 AWG to a standard 20 amp 125 volt breaker?
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Can you special order a breaker with a larger lug ? ive done it for larger breakers ime not sure if you can for smaller yes there are limitations on what we can do with the material that is available and time frame
 
AV ELECTRIC said:
Can you special order a breaker with a larger lug ? ive done it for larger breakers ime not sure if you can for smaller yes there are limitations on what we can do with the material that is available and time frame
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These are standard one inch single pole breakers, you would not get them with a lug for 4 AWG.

But again why? There is no quality, functionality, code reason, or safety issue with splicing on some 10 AWG to the 4 AWG which is what we did at the panel end.
 
When mixing conductors in long runs for VD I have always liked putting the larger conductors somewhere in the middle and ends of the run just for confussion purposes. :grin:


Roger
 
roger said:
When mixing conductors in long runs for VD I have always liked putting the larger conductors somewhere in the middle and ends of the run just for confussion purposes. :grin:


Roger
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If there's anything I hate, it's being confussed.
 
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