Breaker Panel above Electric Range Question

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jhsugg

jhsugg

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One of my customers has asked me to upgrade the electric service at a rental property to 200 amps. I would like to use the existing 100 amp breaker panel as a subpanel or for the location of the new 200 amp panel. Obliviously the reason for wanting to use this location is all wiring in the home terminates there. The house was built in 1952 and the existing 100 amp breaker panel was upgraded from a fuse panel by the previous owner some time in the past.

My question involves whether or not the current NEC will allow me to use the existing 100 amp panel as a subpanel or the same location for a new 200 amp panel? Here's the kicker, the panel is currently located in an exterior wall in a very small kitchen about a foot or so above the electric range. I have reviewed the 2005 NEC and searched the 2008 NEC at NECPlus.org but haven't found any code specifically disallowing the location. Does anyone have any experience whether such a location is allowed or disallowed by code?
 
jhsugg said:
I have reviewed the 2005 NEC and searched the 2008 NEC at NECPlus.org but haven't found any code specifically disallowing the location. Does anyone have any experience whether such a location is allowed or disallowed by code?
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110.26 ?
 
Is the interrepretation of 110.26(A)(1) to mean the space beneath the installed elevation of the panel must be free of permanent obstructions? In this case the electric range is free standing and can be moved.
 
jhsugg said:
In this case the electric range is free standing and can be moved.
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And if you can sell your inspector on that you may be good to go.

Roger
 
jhsugg said:
Is the interrepretation of 110.26(A)(1) to mean the space beneath the installed elevation of the panel must be free of permanent obstructions?
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Yes

In this case the electric range is free standing and can be moved.
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110.26(B) prohibits work space around a panel from being used for storage. That section requires they area 'be clear'
 
jhsugg said:
Here's the kicker, the panel is currently located in an exterior wall in a very small kitchen about a foot or so above the electric range.
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That's not a good location for a panel even if it was allowed. Where is the vent hood going to go? Without a vent there would be steam and grease fumes going right in the panel.

I think I would just move that one instead of looking for a reason to leave it there. Other than the bathroom it would be hard to find a worse location.
 
growler said:
That's not a good location for a panel even if it was allowed. Where is the vent hood going to go? Without a vent there would be steam and grease fumes going right in the panel.

I think I would just move that one instead of looking for a reason to leave it there. Other than the bathroom it would be hard to find a worse location.
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At what point do we say "or maybe it won't be a problem"....?

It's been there since 1952

I'd leave it right where it is and put the new service somewhere else.
 
110.26 section says no.

The panel will no longer be functioning in the same capacity that it was when originally installed. It will now be a sub-panel.

Remodel the kitchen;)
 
If the locations work...

You could surface mount a exterior panel on the opposite side of the wall (outside), join the panels with some conduit, use the existing panel as a junction box, and simply splice onto and route the homeruns to the new panel.

Just a idea

steve
 
electricmanscott said:
At what point do we say "or maybe it won't be a problem"....?

It's been there since 1952

I'd leave it right where it is and put the new service somewhere else.[/QUOTE]

And your willing to admit that out loud ! Damn your bold. I would be looking to relocate that as one of the FIRST things I did, Not only is it a safety hazard but it has to be fugly as sin.
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electricmanscott said:
I'd leave it right where it is and put the new service somewhere else.
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But then you'd have to make it a sub panel and re-feed it.

Better to gut it and turn it into a J-box.
 
Thanks for all the discussion. I agree the old panel location is not ideal. Based on all the discussion, it appears the best 100% code compliant solution is the use of the old panel as a junction box with a new 200 amp panel outside directly opposite the old panel.
 
acrwc10 said:
electricmanscott said:
At what point do we say "or maybe it won't be a problem"....?

It's been there since 1952

I'd leave it right where it is and put the new service somewhere else.[/QUOTE]

And your willing to admit that out loud ! Damn your bold. I would be looking to relocate that as one of the FIRST things I did, Not only is it a safety hazard but it has to be fugly as sin.
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Bold maybe but honest without a doubt.
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There really is no proof that the panel has been located there since '52. The OP mentioned there is a fairly new panel, who knows where it may have been located before??
Without seeing the installation and the SE, it is hard for us to say.

110.26 has been in the NEC for a long time, maybe not as 110.26, but I am taking a shot here and saying this install may never have been permitted...who knows, maybe the range was not located where it is now when the panel was installed.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
There really is no proof that the panel has been located there since '52. ...who knows, maybe the range was not located where it is now when the panel was installed.
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I'm shocked it took 19 posts to get to this statement. :grin:
 
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