Breaker requirements for swimming pool equipment

Status
Not open for further replies.
L

lanel

Member
Location
ga
Occupation
Electric Utility Electronics Specialist
I want to verify if the correct breakers are being used for a swimming pool in Georgia.
Attached is a picture of the breakers that are being installed in a Hayward OmniPL control. I looked at the manufacturer electrical wiring instructions and regarding the use of GFCI breakers, it says to follow local codes but does not say they are required. There will be a 100A main feeding this control which is yet to be installed or of known type.
As for equipment that will be powered:
2.7hp 240v water pump.
Booster pump, voltage unknown
Low voltage transformer
Heat Pump 240v

Eaton breakers are used but not listed in the chart below as suitable although all are BR prefix
For the heatpump, it is a Siemens and neither the mfg or type are listed as suitable.


Screenshot 2022-05-17 3.37.42 PM.pngIMG_2047.jpg
 
roger said:
Cutler-Hammer is Eaton or vice versa.
Click to expand...
But GE is not listed there, & BR ("Zinsco II") does not have a GFCI listed. The BR has been branded as Bryant, Westinghouse, Cutler-Hammer, & now Eaton to make it confusing.
 
Swimming pool pumps require GFCI protection which is normally supplied by the breaker.
Depending on the Code cycle being enforced by the particular jurisdiction, the heat pump might need GFCI protection.
 
norcal said:
But GE is not listed there, & BR ("Zinsco II") does not have a GFCI listed. The BR has been branded as Bryant, Westinghouse, Cutler-Hammer, & now Eaton to make it confusing.
Click to expand...
Eaton owns Cutler Hammer so they are basically one and the same, like Schneider and SQ D
 
I put all the pool equipment on gfci, including the heater. A little pool panel like that would be all individual gfci"s. I charge enough to make it okay. I sleep better like that.
Some pool heater manufacturers do not recommend gfci on their heaters. (Nuisance trips) I've not had any call backs. I use Siemens.
 
Little Bill said:
The 50A breaker (that you say is for the heat pump) is not a Siemens breaker, it is a GE. Ge is not on the list.
Click to expand...
You are correct, it is a GE and not a Siemans and still not on their list. I'm a bit surprised that Hayward would not specify a GFCI breaker, especially on a pump. I'll look at the pump instructions to see if it mentions GFCI on wiring. Is it possible that the pump could have that built in?

The contractor is also running a Alan Wire cable, labeled as a type NM-B, 2 conductor 6 awg and 1 ground 10 awg for a 100 amp service to this control. From what I have read, it's an THNN equivalent cable and only good for 75 amps if ambient temp is 86 F.

The inspector in our county requires that all contractors are licensed. I have reason to believe this person is not licensed and not doing things per code.

Thanks for all the replies.
 
lanel said:
I'm a bit surprised that Hayward would not specify a GFCI breaker, especially on a pump.
Click to expand...
That would be an NEC requirement.

lanel said:
I'll look at the pump instructions to see if it mentions GFCI on wiring. Is it possible that the pump could have that built in?
Click to expand...
Unlikely.

lanel said:
The contractor is also running a Alan Wire cable, labeled as a type NM-B, 2 conductor 6 awg and 1 ground 10 awg for a 100 amp service to this control. From what I have read, it's an THNN equivalent cable and only good for 75 amps if ambient temp is 86 F.
Click to expand...
It's a feeder, not a service. Regardless of "equivalent" #6 NM is only rated for 55 amps. He needs #3 cu or #1 al.

lanel said:
The inspector in our county requires that all contractors are licensed. I have reason to believe this person is not licensed and not doing things per code.
Click to expand...
Don't be shy about finding out. Unlicensed work doesn't do us any favors.
 
lanel said:
You are correct, it is a GE and not a Siemans and still not on their list. I'm a bit surprised that Hayward would not specify a GFCI breaker, especially on a pump. I'll look at the pump instructions to see if it mentions GFCI on wiring. Is it possible that the pump could have that built in?

The contractor is also running a Alan Wire cable, labeled as a type NM-B, 2 conductor 6 awg and 1 ground 10 awg for a 100 amp service to this control. From what I have read, it's an THNN equivalent cable and only good for 75 amps if ambient temp is 86 F.

The inspector in our county requires that all contractors are licensed. I have reason to believe this person is not licensed and not doing things per code.

Thanks for all the replies.
Click to expand...

Is the panel pictured what you have installed now? Because I see 120v loads and you don’t have a neutral with 6/2, along with it being undersized.

Also Siemens is the recommended GFCI breaker for pool pumps. Square D & Eaton are known to nuisance trip.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
LarryFine said:
It's a feeder, not a service. Regardless of "equivalent" #6 NM is only rated for 55 amps. He needs #3 cu or #1 al.
Click to expand...
I think I got the ampacity from a chart on this website but it corresponds to one from the manufacturer that says 75 amps. Can you explain where the 55 amp rating came from?

brantmacga said:
Is the panel pictured what you have installed now? Because I see 120v loads and you don’t have a neutral with 6/2, along with it being undersized.
Click to expand...
I was questioning the AWG but am also interested if a two conductor w/ ground is correct for this application.

FYI, I think I recall someone saying the builder lost his electrician and I think this guy is out here trying to complete the job without proper knowledge. The county allows an unlicensed homeowner to do their own wiring but if it is a contractor they are required to be licensed in the state of GA. I will be persistent and make sure they correct anything that is not to code.

This ampacity sheet is from the manufacturer of the cable they are using.

Screenshot 2022-05-18 7.58.52 AM.png
 
The Table is referencing single conductors not a cable assembly and to go a little further, the feeder can not be NM cable see 680.25(A)

Sounds like the whole installation needs to be redone.
 
roger said:
The Table is referencing single conductors not a cable assembly and to go a little further, the feeder can not be NM cable see 680.25(A)

Sounds like the whole installation needs to be redone.
Click to expand...
They are supposed to be finished today. I will let the builder know afterwards it wasn’t done correctly. I will also speak with the building inspector and let him know what’s going on and see if the plumber/electrician is listed on their affidavit. Since this guy was asking me questions and based on the work he’s done, pretty sure he’s not an licensed electrician.

thanks.,,,
 
retirede said:
I think that only is the case for variable speed pumps. Most new installations are likely VS, so your point is valid.
Click to expand...

That’s right. I assumed VS pump because its 2.7hp and using an automation panel.

99% of single speed pool pumps are 1.5hp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
norcal said:
But GE is not listed there, & BR ("Zinsco II") does not have a GFCI listed. The BR has been branded as Bryant, Westinghouse, Cutler-Hammer, & now Eaton to make it confusing.
Click to expand...
Issue I've seen with using GE breaker on the a panel designed for Eaton BR or SD HOM is the the GE will practically require hammering them onto the bus of the Eaton BR style panel. The contacting points just don't make a clean contact onto the thicker BR bus as a result. Also removal practically need a pry bar to remove. Also if the BR style panel is full width bus stabs, the rejection device will prevent the GE breaker from seating fully onto the bus. (Seen it.)
 
The two issues that are really a safety factor would be the lack of GFCI protection and the 6/2wG indicating the equipment ground is being used as a neutral also. Either of these could present a fatal shock factor at a pool.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top