Bringing lighting up to current code

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steve66

steve66

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Illinois
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Engineer
2005 NEC 700.6(D) requires a separate transfer switch for emergency lighting (separate from optional loads, that is). This requirement is not in the 1978 code. So say I have a large building, built in 1980, that met the 1978 code.

Now we remodel a corridor and replace the lighting. The generator and transfer switch still meet the 1978 code. Are battery packs required for the lights? Or does the generator still qualify as an emergency source?

Steve
 
In my jursidiction (and most of the jurisdictions where I have worked) it requires a certain percentage of remodel work being done before the AHJ will require existing electrical work to meet the current standards. For example, if you change the lighting in one corridor of a multifloor building the answer would be no. We have another standard where one for one replacements, such as a lighting changeout, does not require inspections or licensed electricians doing the changeout. There could be other standards for building/safety that supersede the NEC rules in your jurisdiction.
 
Is the building required by the city to have an emergency system, or is this an optional standby system?

My memory's fuzzy (and it's close to bedtime) but aren't frog-eyes on the normal lighting branch circuit not really covered by Article 700?

(You asking if frog-eyes are required, or if the generator turning on the branch circuit itself to re-energize the lights is sufficient, right? Or am I over-simplifying your problem?)
 
Steve I don't think this question can be answered by anyone other than the AHJ for that area.

IMO a good design here would have line voltage emergency lighting supplied by the existing generator but each emergency fixture would also have battery back up such as Bodine ballasts.


George if "Frog Eyes" are required emergency battery units they are indeed covered by Article 700.

The supply to EBUs has to comply with 700.12(E) and the outputs if run to remote heads must comply with the rest of 700.
 
George:

Yes they are required to have emergency exit lighting. Normally, this would be done one of two ways:

1. Install the frog eyes with internal batteries. Then you are correct, all the emergency wiring is internal to the fixture. Thats how it would normally be done if there wasn't a generator.

2. Connect some regular lights to a generator that meets article 700.

Of course, the owner doesn't want frog-eyes. So I would like to use #2. But the generator was installed in 1980, and met the code at the time. However, it could not be installed the same way today. Normally, only areas that are remodeled have to be brought up to the current code. So I guess the basic question is this: If we remodel one area, is the generator OK since we aren't touching it, or does the area need to be supplied by something that meets the current code?

Steve
 
Iwire:

I think I knew that was the correct answer, but it leaves me between a rock and a hard place. The owner has vetoed "good design". They don't want to set a "precedent". :x
 
"Frog Eyes" :?: :?: :?:

I don't think I'll ever get used to electrician slang. I had better go back into the Navy. At least there I understood the language! :lol:
 
charlie b said:
"Frog Eyes" :?: :?: :?:

I don't think I'll ever get used to electrician slang. I had better go back into the Navy. At least there I understood the language! :lol:
Click to expand...

LOL

I wasn't familiar with that particular bit of slang either, but I knew instantly what he was referring to.
 
charlie b said:
"Frog Eyes" :?: :?: :?:

I don't think I'll ever get used to electrician slang. I had better go back into the Navy. At least there I understood the language! :lol:
Click to expand...

Where I work we call the people, who get work orders to replace bad EM lights, Frog Eye Commando. If you get a work order to go out to (90 minute) test for bad frog eyes, you are a Breaker Flipper.

Dave
 
colosparker said:
charlie b said:
"Frog Eyes" :?: :?: :?: I don't think I'll ever get used to electrician slang. I had better go back into the Navy. At least there I understood the language! :lol:
Click to expand...
Where I work we call the people, who get work orders to replace bad EM lights, Frog Eye Commando.
Click to expand...
If Charlie got the highest elisted Navy rank, before helping you guys fix EM lights, you'ld have to call him (MCPO-FEC) Master Chief Petty Officer Frog Eye Commando.

With the similar AirForce rank, helping you & Charlie would make me Chief Master
Sergeant Frog Eye Commando, but after corporate consolidations you'ld probably call us both Master-Master Bater Frog Eye Commandos.

Now, I might volunteer for a tour in Iraq before surrendering to a title like that, but for the sake of political correctness, lets not go there.
 
georgestolz said:
So would the emergency wiring system be the internal wiring inside the emergency light, and that's it, in some cases? That seems odd.
Click to expand...

Sort of.

Often we install remote heads from EBUs, those remote heads are 'emergency system' wiring and fall under 700.

Even without remote heads the line voltage supply must conform with 700.12(E) as in 'same circuit as the area lighting' not switched etc.
 
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