BS excuse or legitimate gripe? (WV marina refusing to add GFCIs to boat slips)

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htroberts said:
I found the bill http://www.mileyinthehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Michael-Cunningham-Bill.pdf

The portion dealing with Marina wiring seems straightforward:

?20-7-26. Boat Dock and Marina Safety Requirements-Electrical Shock and Electrocution.

(a) All boat dock or marina owners or operators shall comply with the following requirements to prevent electrical shock, electrocution, or injury to users of their facilities and the surrounding areas:

(1) All electrical wiring shall be installed by and maintained by a holder of a valid West Virginia electrician license or master electrician license in accordance with the most recently adopted versions of the National Fire Protection Association's Standards for Marinas and Boatyards (NFPA) 303 and the National Electric Code (NFPA 70);

(2) Install ground fault circuit interrupters on all boat dock and marina electrical wiring circuits;

(3) Cause annual inspection by a West Virginia certified electrical inspector or master electrician of all sources of electrical supply, including ship-to-shore power pedestals, submergible pumps, and sewage pump-out facilities, that could result in unsafe electrical current in the water.​

[sic--not sure what happened to (b)]
(c) All work performed on rental motor boats or vessels shall be performed by electricians licensed in West Virginia who are familiar with ABYC standards or by an ABYC certified electrical technician.​

I thought this was interesting as well, although it's on the 'vessel' side.

?20-7-27. Boat and Vessel Safety Requirements-Electrical Shock and Electrocution.

(a) Every vessel shall have aboard all equipment meeting the ABYC standards necessary to ensure the safety of the passengers and the public from electric shock, electrocution, and electric shock drowning.

(b) Electrical wiring on a motorboat shall be performed by electricians licensed in West Virginia who are familiar with ABYC standards or by an ABYC certified electrical technician.​

I'd like to know what's in the ABYC standard.

So must comply with latest adopted code in WV; no grandfathering. I'd like to see the condition of the existing wiring that necessitates replacing the whole ball of wax. And as the law is written, I assume that future code versions will apply immediately as they're adopted as well...
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I've not see the version of the bill you quote, perhaps it is a draft that didn't make it into law?
 
greenspark1 said:
Well it's really hard to say what drove the cost so high. There could by a host of other issues that need to be remedied to bring the docks up to Code. I assume installing GFCI on the feeder to the docks would solve the GFCI problem, no reason to install one for each slip.

Considering this is the same marina where the teenager was killed, I find it disrespectful that they won't install the safety equipment.
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GFCIs (5mA) may not be practical on feeders, too much leakage. Feeder standard is 100mA.
 
greenspark1 said:
Well it's really hard to say what drove the cost so high. There could by a host of other issues that need to be remedied to bring the docks up to Code. I assume installing GFCI on the feeder to the docks would solve the GFCI problem, no reason to install one for each slip.

Considering this is the same marina where the teenager was killed, I find it disrespectful that they won't install the safety equipment.
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This is a safety issue. There are two ways to remedy a hazard like this. One is to install the requisite equipment at $600K. If you can't afford $600K, the second option is to remove the hazard. They chose "B". There's nothing disrespectful in that, unless you're really just insisting that they need to be monitarily punished or bankrupted to satisfy a sense of vengence.
 
gadfly56 said:
This is a safety issue. There are two ways to remedy a hazard like this. One is to install the requisite equipment at $600K. If you can't afford $600K, the second option is to remove the hazard. They chose "B". There's nothing disrespectful in that, unless you're really just insisting that they need to be monitarily punished or bankrupted to satisfy a sense of vengence.
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It is a State Park. You "can't" bankrupt a State Park. The idea is not to kill any more people. Electricity doesn't care if it is a state utility or a business. The law doesn't either.

"Vengeance" would have been to fire or arrest some people. I don't know if anyone was fired.

If you will recall, there was another posting about this from the electrician at a private marina who wanted to know if an old mining cable laying on the bottom of a lake covered by debris, rocks, and who knows what could be grandfathered. The inspections are going to be pretty harsh in terms of proper conductor/cable and mechanical protection of same. EGCs will be insulated. Installations that do not meet the letter of the Code will not pass. Somebody's idea of 3R will not pass.


Bringing some of the places up to code will probably require ripping it out and starting over. Just the inspections are going to be costly. The intent is to look at everything, not just to take a sampling and assume the placed that are not looked at are OK. If an establishment can't afford an inspection or can afford to bring itself up to code and a re-inspection, that is sad, but another death is a tragedy.

The inspectors I know are not out to just shut people down, they are there to point out problems and help educate people on ways to solve them.
 
I agree that all marinas should have their electrical systems meet code, including the addition of ELCI's. But if government really wanted to eliminate the hazard of Electric Shock Drowning (ESD), they would mandate that all boats with shore power connections -- particularly boats that operate in freshwater -- have isolation transformers installed.
 
Jon456 said:
I agree that all marinas should have their electrical systems meet code, including the addition of ELCI's. But if government really wanted to eliminate the hazard of Electric Shock Drowning (ESD), they would mandate that all boats with shore power connections -- particularly boats that operate in freshwater -- have isolation transformers installed.
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Which would still not be sufficient to prevent a hazard from an improperly wired boat which could energize the water around it entirely on its own....
An external ground reference is not necessary to create a hazard. Just two electrodes on the boat itself will do just fine.
 
GoldDigger said:
Which would still not be sufficient to prevent a hazard from an improperly wired boat which could energize the water around it entirely on its own....
An external ground reference is not necessary to create a hazard. Just two electrodes on the boat itself will do just fine.
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For this to occur, the boat would have to be very improperly wired: a hot connected directly to a through-hull fitting with no bonding to the boat's ground. While such a situation is possible, it would be extremely unusual. It would also be negligent to the point of criminal charges if it resulted in someone's death.

The problem with boats that do not have an isolation transformer is that, even when correctly wired, they can create an ESD hazard. There are numerous ways that stray water path currents can occur: through faults on your boat, faults on the shore wiring, or faults on neighboring boats. For example, an appliance installed aboard a boat could develop a faulty neutral wire that is in contact with the grounded metal chassis of the appliance.

A 100mA ELCI can allow enough leakage into the water, via a boat's bonded through-hull fittings, to kill someone. If the boat has a correctly-installed isolation transformer, then it's impossible for shore power to electrify the water around that boat, even if the boat develops an internal ground-fault. On the isolation transformer equipped boat, any wiring fault will want to return the electricity only to the internal source on the boat (either the isolation transformer or the generator, depending on which is supplying power). There is no electrical potential to drive the current into the water.
 
fmtjfw said:
I've not see the version of the bill you quote, perhaps it is a draft that didn't make it into law?
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You're correct. What I get for being too quick, but I was trying to contribute to the conversation rather than stirring the pot and walking away.

Here's the actual law, quoted in part:

?20-9-3. Boat Dock and Marina Safety Requirements-Electrical Shock and Electrocution.

All boat dock or marina owners or operators shall comply with the following requirements to prevent electrical shock, electrocution or injury to users of their facilities and the surrounding areas:

(1) All electrical wiring involving 110 AC or 220 AC shall be installed by and maintained by a holder of a valid West Virginia journeyman electrician license or master electrician license in accordance with the most recently adopted versions of the National Fire Protection Association's Standards for Marinas and Boatyards (NFPA 303) and the National Electric Code (NFPA 70);

(2) Install ground fault circuit interrupters on all boat dock and marina electrical wiring circuits; and

(3) Cause an inspection before August 1, 2014 and at least once every three years thereafter by a West Virginia licensed electrical inspector of all sources of electrical supply, including ship-to-shore power pedestals, submergible pumps, and sewage pump-out facilities, that could result in unsafe electrical current in the water.​

So it seems that the takeaways are that all boat dock and marina wiring has to have a GFCI (without specifying what sort, or what leakage current is allowed), and that all wiring has to be inspected and comply with the latest adopted code.

The obvious upgrade for the original marina is a GFCI on each dock circuit, but complying with the latest code would depend entirely on what's already there.

My take is that the quoted $600K probably means re-wiring the whole place from scratch, but also that this may be a larger scope than what is strictly necessary to meet the new law. It's also possible that there's a simple financial calculation and no contractor wanted to assume the liability for certifying that any existing wiring met the requirements.

Since the implementation date was not delayed, I wonder why they're waiting until December to turn off the power.
 
Just completed a grounding marina investigation and found 10 to 12 amps of return current flow through the water .As more boats plugged in this number gradually increased with each addional boat (capacitive leakage currents etc.).In our country only 15 and 20 amp pedestal circuits are on GFCI trip units.The 40 and 50 amp pedestals (according to code) have no ground leakage trip system. Go figure!

The marina operator in this case simply installed no swimming signs.
 
From the article quoted in the original post, it appears the gov did sign the bill. At the end of July I was hearing that he didn't (hadn't?).

I found about 3 versions of the bill when I first looked for it too.
 
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