Buchanan B2 Red

[winnie]

I don't read that at all
If you use B2 with any stranded conductors you may not have more than (4) #12, but if you use only solid conductors you can have (5) conductors. While B4 allow the same quantity of both.

Guess its time for someone to 'ask the manufacturer'.

If that was the case, then the table should say:
2-4 #12
2-5 #12 SOLID

If they don't specify solid or stranded, then you can use either. If they specify one or the other you are limited to that type.

With that said, I went to the manufacturer product page:

BCAP Wire Connector Model B2 Red

B-Cap-B2: Low profile design gets you into tight spaces and hard-to-reach spots comfortably Slim, classic fins offer a secure grip for extra leverage and easy installation Live-action spring of the Red B2 easily handles 2 #18 up to 5 #12, and will even de

www.idealind.com

The first .pdf linked on the B2 product page:

https://www.idealind.com/content/dam/europe/assets/WireTermination/WireConnectors/TwistOn/WingTwist%20WireTwist/WingTwist/UL%20Listed%20WireCombinations.pdf

Has the only solid or only stranded restrictions we've been discussing (page 8 for the B2)

The second .pdf on the page:

https://www.idealind.com/content/dam/europe/assets/WireTermination/WireConnectors/TwistOn/BCap/BCAP%20SpecSheet.pdf

Does not have the restrictions; it simply says '2-4 #12' for the B2.

Jonathan

 

[jim dungar]

If that was the case, then the table should say:
2-4 #12
2-5 #12 SOLID

If they don't specify solid or stranded, then you can use either. If they specify one or the other you are limited to that type.

With that said, I went to the manufacturer product page:

But how is your logic applied when there is also this in the chart?
2 #12 w/1 #14 w/1 to 3 #16
Doesn't this mean solid and stranded can be mixed together?

 

[winnie]

But how is your logic applied when there is also this in the chart?
2 #12 w/1 #14 w/1 to 3 #16
Doesn't this mean solid and stranded can be mixed together?

Yes, it does mean that the specified combination of solid and stranded can be mixed. Right at the top of the table it says 'For use on solid and/or stranded wire combinations unless noted otherwise.'

Yes, in the table gives lots of combinations where solid and stranded can be mixed.

I _don't_ claim to know the logic behind the table, I am only analyzing what the table itself says. Looking at the table and the things left out I have to wonder if there were errors in creating the table, or if really was a case of certain wire combinations not being tested and listed.

I suspect that you and I would agree on what the table _should_ say. For the B2 I think the table should say '2-4 #12, 2-5 #12 SOLID', implying that any combination of 2-4 #12 solid or stranded is acceptable. But the table actually SAYS '2-4 #12 STRANDED, 2-5 #12 SOLID' and doesn't offer a mix of solid and stranded for just #12 conductors for the B2 connector.

For the larger B4 connector it simply says '2-5 #12' and thus allows mixing solid and stranded 12ga conductors, but has separate solid and stranded values for 10ga conductors.

-Jonathan

 

[jim dungar]

doesn't offer a mix of solid and stranded for just #12 conductors for the B2 connector.

Using you interpretation the table doesn't allow connecting stranded to solid if all of the conductors are the same size unless they are #20 or #22.
But solid and stranded can be connected if at least one other size wire is included.

I agree the first column in the chart does not need the word 'stranded', based on its opening sentence.

 

[LarryFine]

I have never looked beyond using the right size wire-nut for the wire bundle.

I also have never had an inspector or anyone else ever look or mention it.

 

[winnie]

Using you interpretation the table doesn't allow connecting stranded to solid if all of the conductors are the same size unless they are #20 or #22.
But solid and stranded can be connected if at least one other size wire is included.

Yes, I believe that is what the table explicitly says.

IMHO this is bass-akwards enough that I suspect the table is wrong. And as I noted above the _other_ datasheet from the manufacturer doesn't have this restriction.

 

[Strathead]

This is the kind of stuff that makes our trade ridiculous. Not a single dollar or thought should be put in to this concept. Twist the wires and be done with it. If the wires fit and they pass the pull test, done.

A similar issue a friend and I disagree on. Do conduit "straps" technically material used to secure conduit per the code need to be listed. The codes says conduit fittings need to be listed. The code specifically says ty wraps used must be listed. I contend, tie wire or plumbers tape or even a bent over nail are acceptable to the code. And in some cases far better at securing the conduit than a 1 hole strap. An no listing is required because a securing method is not a "fitting". My friend disagrees.

 

[jim dungar]

Twist the wires and be done with it. If the wires fit and they pass the pull test, done.

Pulling on the conductors does not mean the connection can handle magnetic forces from fault currents or thermal expansion and contraction. If twisting the wires is what is important than why use anything but insulating tape.

There is actually a lot of science behind wirenuts, although most of it was done some 40 years ago when 'coiled spring' designs were introduced.

I have never looked beyond using the right size wire-nut for the wire bundle.

This is the problem, what nut is the right size?

When I worked at a distributor we carried at least 3 different brands and 5 sizes used by electricians for connecting #12 conductors. Each EC had their own preference/standard and most would not use anything else. I had one who drove 15 miles one way rather than switch between 3M and Ideal.

 

[LarryFine]

This is the problem, what nut is the right size?

Two answers:

1. Tell me the wires, and I'll tell you the wire-nut to use.

2. Show me the wires, and I'll tell you the wire-nut to use.

I hate the one-size-fits-all method, like a red for a fixture wire on one #14.

 

[Eddie702]

Back in the day when we exclusively used the old style 3M Scotchloks for solid conductors we would use the Red Buchanans for solid to stranded connections because the original Scotchloks weren't very good at connecting solid and stranded.

Hated Scotchlocks. You put them on you go to take them off and they turn and turn and they don't back out. End up cutting them off.

 

[roger]

Hated Scotchlocks. You put them on you go to take them off and they turn and turn and they don't back out. End up cutting them off.

Just squeeze them with your side cutters before turning and they came right off.

 

[Strathead]

Pulling on the conductors does not mean the connection can handle magnetic forces from fault currents or thermal expansion and contraction. If twisting the wires is what is important than why use anything but insulating tape.

For the record, when I said twist the wires, I didn't mean pretwist the wires, I was basically thinking about twisting the wire nut on the wires and them "being twisted".

 

[Jimmy7]

Here is what the manufacturer sent me:

Stranded mixed for the same gauge of wire but there is a limit to the maximum number of conductors that is limited by this main premise.

For example if you have #12 wire you can splice solid with stranded wires with a maximum combination of 4 #12’s. If you have all the #12 wires being solid, then you can splice up to 5 total #12 wires. The same goes for #14 wire. You can have any combination of Solid and Stranded #14 up to 5 total. And you can have 6 #14 if all the conductors are Solid.

The combinations then would read like this below and we will update our wire combination list to reflect that right away.



2 or 3 #10 solid

2 to 4 #12 stranded/solid

2 to 5 #12 solid

2 to 5 #14 stranded/solid

2 to 6 #14 solid

2 to 5 #16 stranded/solid

2 to 6 #16 solid

2 to 5 #18 stranded/solid

 

[winnie]

Here is what the manufacturer sent me:

Stranded mixed for the same gauge of wire but there is a limit to the maximum number of conductors that is limited by this main premise.

For example if you have #12 wire you can splice solid with stranded wires with a maximum combination of 4 #12’s. If you have all the #12 wires being solid, then you can splice up to 5 total #12 wires. The same goes for #14 wire. You can have any combination of Solid and Stranded #14 up to 5 total. And you can have 6 #14 if all the conductors are Solid.

Thank you for reaching out to the manufacturer!

The list the manufacturer supplied is essentially what @jim dungar inferred from the manufacturer's incomplete document.

-Jonathan