petersonra
Senior Member
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- Northern illinois
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- engineer
that is also my understanding. but my understanding is that the connector manufacturer is not the only entity that can identify an appropriate tool.
Buchanon or barrel crimp sleave wire connector
- Thread starter jdixon
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that is also my understanding. but my understanding is that the connector manufacturer is not the only entity that can identify an appropriate tool.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
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- engineer
are you saying that a klein crimping tool cannot be used with any terminal other than those made by klein? if so, why would klein bother to make such a tool since they don't make terminals.
PetrosA
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster, Pennsylvania
It could be that the crimp made with a Klein tool and a given terminal won't be UL listed unless the terminal manufacturer designates the Klein tool as one that qualifies. I'd love to find out the answer, especially considering that most of the high end crimp tools are made by three companies (one in Sweden, one in Switzerland, the other in Germany) and most of the mid range tools are made by one or two companies in Taiwan and China. So basically, multiple branded crimp tools could all be the exact same model and meet the same specs.
The most important question is, how important is UL listing for a crimp termination?
petersonra
Senior Member
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- Northern illinois
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- engineer
UL does not list the crimp itself, as that is labor and not something UL had any supervision over.
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- Placerville, CA, USA
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- Retired PV System Designer
You don't think that could fall under using the listed item according the manufacturer's instructions? Does that only apply if the instructions formed part of the listing document?
petersonra
Senior Member
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- Northern illinois
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- engineer
The use of the word "or" strongly suggests that either the instructions in the listing or the labeling can be used. However if you look at the term "labeling" as defined by the code and by how UL actually uses it, it is not real clear just what it might mean.
The crimp it self has nothing to do with the connector directly, although obviously it has some relationship to whether the end result is acceptable.
One could make a good case that the listing or labeling instructions of the tool manufacturer are just as good as those of the connector manufacturer.
- Location
- Illinois
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- retired electrician
If the tool instructions specified the manufacturer and part number of the connectors that it can be used with, I would be ok with that.
jdixon
Member
- Location
- great falls, montana, usa
Thank you to everyone! you have given me alot to think about and answered any and all questions i have about this out dated yet compliant wire termination method.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
The code does not regulate the use of tools just products 90.1(C).
According to the UL 486C listing the only time you need to use a specific tool is if the manufacturer states it. Part of it may be included with same manufacturers tool or tool case but not different mfr's tool.
Unless that buchannon box states a specific tool is required that old school electrician is free to judge the sutibility of any blunt object for making the crimp (wether or not the tool idintifies the crimp).
If panduit or T&B say to use a specific tool then thats the only tool to use with that crimp, if they dont stipulate a tool then anything goes, because UL has tested the crimp with tools they deem an electrician would have selected as described in my earlier post.
See also UL white book ZMKQ:
white book (C) UL 2013 UL said:
Cheers and happy crimping
- Location
- Wisconsin
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- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
What about when 'controlled cycle' crimping tools are used?
PetrosA
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster, Pennsylvania
I think Tortuga's point about UL486C Sec. 25 answers that. If Panduit or T&B or Ideal or whoever labels the container of crimps and lists specific tools to use to achieve a UL listed termination, the only way to do that is per the instructions. Those tools seem to be controlled cycle most often, but I think there are a few non controlled cycle ones that a few manufacturers accept, depending on the crimp.
Personally, I wouldn't want to go back to using non controlled cycle crimp tools for anything insulated and larger than 22 AWG...
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
I think that most of the connectors for wire #10 and smaller list non-controlled crimp tools in their lists of "identified" tools.
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