Bundling conductors

[infinity]

This is exactly the point of this thread

It's a good point because panels like the one in post #15 are installed like that every day with the application of the exception. Given the size of the gutter space the bundling is a non-issue.

I don't think I have ever wire-tied wires in a panel like that.

And why do those wires look so large?

They are 100 amp feeders for apartments in an aprtment building. The CT's that they pass through are for sub-metering.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

How do you determine bundling in a panel. Heck most panels are more than 24" so are we suggesting that bundling must occur there. There is so much air inside a panel as opposed to a raceway that it seems unwise to include a panel.

Is the only time it is considered bundling in a panel is if there are tie wraps around the conductors? There is definitely space between the conductors, IMO so I don't see it applying

The code does not say you have to do an ampacity adjustment when you bundle the conductors....it says you must do that where you do not maintain space between the conductors. I see that as saying you have to use some method to actively maintain the space. There is nothing to suggest how much space is needed between conductors.

 

[augie47]

Don't know the Code cycle in effect when that panel was wired but would it not be a violation of 200.4(B) under present Codes ?
Makes bundling even more interesting.

 

[infinity]

Don't know the Code cycle in effect when that panel was wired but would it not be a violation of 200.4(B) under present Codes ?
Makes bundling even more interesting.

2008 NEC. If you're referring to the neutral identification each neutral conductor is individually labeled.

 

[augie47]

2008 NEC. If you're referring to the neutral identification each neutral conductor is individually labeled.

I noticed that and my memory took me to 210.4(D) where they mention "grouping"I failed to realize 200.4 says or "by identification"
Learning experience Thanks

 

[infinity]

I noticed that and my memory took me to 210.4(D) where they mention "grouping"I failed to realize 200.4 says or "by identification"
Learning experience Thanks

I'm not sure what code cycle the number identification of individual conductors was permitted. (I should have remembered because that was one of my proposals that got accepted.)

 

[augie47]

I'm not sure what code cycle the number identification of individual conductors was permitted. (I should have remembered because that was one of my proposals that got accepted.)

One of the many problems associated with old age. 2011 mentioned "cable ties or other similar means", 2014 introduced "identification".
I recalled the "ties" as that was a big deal at the time. Your proposal definitely had merit.