BX ran around studs

Status
Not open for further replies.
F

FSE Engineer

Member
Location
NYC
Someone help me please. Instead of cutting the sheet rock and running the bx thru the studs they notched the sheet rock and pulled the bx around the stud. My guess is they are going to patch right over the bx. Is this code compliant? If not can someone let me know what section of the NEC I can look at.
 

Attachments

  • 20150213_070446.jpg
    20150213_070446.jpg
    144.5 KB · Views: 2
  • 20150213_070518.jpg
    20150213_070518.jpg
    154.9 KB · Views: 2
We used to do this all the time in NYC when I was a kid. It seems that art 320.10 allows this in plaster finish on brick but not this particular install. WHY? IDK. Article 300.4(F) would be the pertinent article I believe
 
FSE Engineer said:
Someone help me please. Instead of cutting the sheet rock and running the bx thru the studs they notched the sheet rock and pulled the bx around the stud. My guess is they are going to patch right over the bx. Is this code compliant? If not can someone let me know what section of the NEC I can look at.
Click to expand...
300.4 Protection Against Physical Damage. Where subject to physical damage, conductors, raceways, and cables shall be protected.

(A) Cables and Raceways Through Wood Members.


(1) Bored Holes. In both exposed and concealed locations, where a cable- or raceway-type wiring method is installed through bored holes in joists, rafters, or wood members, holes shall be bored so that the edge of the hole is not less than 32 mm (1? in.) from the nearest edge of the wood member. Where this distance cannot be maintained, the cable or raceway shall be protected from penetration by screws or nails by a steel plate(s) or bushing(s), at least 1.6 mm (1/16 in.) thick, and of appropriate length and width installed to cover the area of the wiring. Exception No. 1 Steel plates shall not be required to protect rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, or electrical metallic tubing.
Exception No. 2 A listed and marked steel plate less than 1.6 mm (1/16 in.) thick that provides equal or better protection against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted.


(2) Notches in Wood. Where there is no objection because of weakening the building structure, in both exposed and concealed locations, cables or raceways shall be permitted to be laid in notches in wood studs, joists, rafters, or other wood members where the cable or raceway at those points is protected against nails or screws by a steel plate at least 1.6 mm (1/16 in.) thick, and of appropriate length and width, installed to cover the area of the wiring. The steel plate shall be installed before the building finish is applied. Exception No. 1 Steel plates shall not be required to protect rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, or electrical metallic tubing.
Exception No. 2 A listed and marked steel plate less than 1.6 mm (1/16 in.) thick that provides equal or better protection against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted.

 
Last edited:
Agree with everyone on 300.4. Only way to fix it would be to cut above and below with a skill saw about 3/4" deep and pop the stud with a chisel to make a notch and put a nail plate over the wire.
 
FSE Engineer said:
Someone help me please. Instead of cutting the sheet rock and running the bx thru the studs they notched the sheet rock and pulled the bx around the stud. My guess is they are going to patch right over the bx. Is this code compliant? If not can someone let me know what section of the NEC I can look at.
Click to expand...

Have done similar with Romex. Of course the studs were notched & Nail Plates were used. Like sparkrick says We are Electricians not Magicians
 
I think the point of 300.4 is to keep the wires away from the depth of your typical sheetrock screw when the sheetrock goes up. Length of sheetrock screws used is usually equal or less than 1.25". If you think about it, you can fish a wire in a sheetrock ceiling and the cable will be resting on the sheetrock. That leaves it less than 1.25" from the finished surface. So that's not the issue.

In this situation, it's just going to be a patch. Nobody is going to haphazardly screw a board of sheetrock over these. Perfectly safe and legal in my opinion.
 
jaylectricity said:
I think the point of 300.4 is to keep the wires away from the depth of your typical sheetrock screw when the sheetrock goes up. Length of sheetrock screws used is usually equal or less than 1.25". If you think about it, you can fish a wire in a sheetrock ceiling and the cable will be resting on the sheetrock. That leaves it less than 1.25" from the finished surface. So that's not the issue.

In this situation, it's just going to be a patch. Nobody is going to haphazardly screw a board of sheetrock over these. Perfectly safe and legal in my opinion.
Click to expand...

What we don't know is the height above finished floor that these wires are ? If in a kitchen are these going to be at the height where they secure upper cabinets ? Or the lower cabinets ? How skilled is the sheetrock mudder-taper at hiding these cables ? If he is real good & makes a perfect patch that is when Murphy's Law comes in to play & somebody bangs a nail for a picture into the cable.
 
We all know the intent however there is nothing in 300.4 (a) or (b) at directly relates to this install. It is not bored and it is not notched. Sp protection from damage in the first sentence would be the code cited.

300.4 Protection Against Physical Damage. Where subject to physical damage, conductors, raceways, and cables shall be protected.
Click to expand...
Trouble is protection from damage is so arbitrary but we certainly can infer from (a) and (b) the intent here. It is amazing that you can find people arguing this point
 
Dennis Alwon said:
We all know the intent however there is nothing in 300.4 (a) or (b) at directly relates to this install. It is not bored and it is not notched. Sp protection from damage in the first sentence would be the code cited.


Trouble is protection from damage is so arbitrary but we certainly can infer from (a) and (b) the intent here. It is amazing that you can find people arguing this point
Click to expand...

Yup and the 1.25" setback from the stud face does not apply to MC cable anyway.
 
It'll probably be ok, but how much longer does it take to whip out a 1" spade bit and notch the stud so you can use a staple on the cables? Better yet, use a larger and smaller hole saw so you have a nice patch piece to put back in.
 
jaylectricity said:
I think the point of 300.4 is to keep the wires away from the depth of your typical sheetrock screw when the sheetrock goes up. Length of sheetrock screws used is usually equal or less than 1.25". If you think about it, you can fish a wire in a sheetrock ceiling and the cable will be resting on the sheetrock. That leaves it less than 1.25" from the finished surface. So that's not the issue.

In this situation, it's just going to be a patch. Nobody is going to haphazardly screw a board of sheetrock over these. Perfectly safe and legal in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Maybe not the first pic, but the second one might be just the right height to secure a tall bookcase with an angle bracket.
 
PetrosA said:
It'll probably be ok, but how much longer does it take to whip out a 1" spade bit and notch the stud so you can use a staple on the cables? Better yet, use a larger and smaller hole saw so you have a nice patch piece to put back in.
Click to expand...
Ahh! but how long does it take to learn these tricks? I have done that pictured install many times, but now I always try to do exactly what you said, whether a hole saw or I'm into the dremmel now. Like you said it doesn't take a lot longer, you put the piece you cut out back, it looks better and you tell the customer (which hopefully you told him already he would have to do some patching) that a little compound and a quick sand he's ready to paint.:)
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Yes but does it go thru or is it parallel to framing?
Click to expand...

Yes, I was referring to the photo's where perpendicular or through a hole in the stud no 1.25" setback is required. It it were you would need a lot of cable protectors for 1 5/8" studs. :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top