c.o. detectors
- Thread starter j rae
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Logan, Utah
I agree with haskindm,
This is a building code requirement. Here in Utah you are required to have a C.O. detector installed on each habitable level of a dewlling that has fuel burning appliances.
Chris
This is a building code requirement. Here in Utah you are required to have a C.O. detector installed on each habitable level of a dewlling that has fuel burning appliances.
Chris
stickboy1375
Senior Member
- Location
- Litchfield, CT
In Connecticut, they are only required outside of sleeping areas... and only if the residence has a fuel burning appliance, or a attached garage, if more than one CO is required to meet the above, the CO's must be interconnected...
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splinetto said:
Ohio currently doesn't have a CO detector requirement but from the meetings I've attended it's obvious that the only requirement being considered is one that prohibits[b/] CO/smoke combos because when there's a problem with the CO detection mechanism or power supply that would also disable the smoke detection for that detector.
My CO/smoke combo at home in my basement doesn't have a stand alone battery. . It has a battery CO sniffer combo cartridge which I can't find at any store. . Until I find a replacement cartridge somewhere or get the time to rip out the detector and put in a stand alone smoke, I won't have smoke detection in my basement.
Combos are a bad idea and should be excluded by code.
David
- Location
- Massachusetts
dnem said:
I disagree, that is not a code issue that is a design issue.
If the homeowner does not maintain the equipment that is the homeowners fault not the codes.
To me that would make as much sense as requiring that a branch circuit has one device to protect against short circuits, another device to protect against overloads, another device to provide GFCI protection and yet another device to provide AFCI protection.
iwire said:
Now you sound like a code panel member that just heard a good code proposal that you can't give a good reason to reject but you're going to reject it because you personally don't care for the idea.
I read the "design issue" cop-out over and over again in the ROP.
iwire said:
So how is it my fault that every store I go to doesn't have this special cartridge that's the only cartridge that will allow my detector to work again ?
Of course design is involved. . Manufactures are forced by the code to design their products to work safely. . We have examples of forced design in 422.51 + 410.73(G). . Design issues can and are put into the code to satisfy safety whenever the code panel deems it necessary.
iwire said:
That's a really bad comparison.
What happens to the branch circuit if the short circuit protection kicks out ? . It's off and you either reset the breaker or look for a different plug to plug into. . If a hard wired light is on that circuit, you break out the flash light until the problem can be corrected. . Your comparison works for those common situations where loss of power doesn?t cause a significant safety issue. . But that?s not the type of situation that I?m talking about.
But if the loss of power would create a safety hazard then the requirements change according to 685.
When the cartridge for the CO sniffer disables the smoke detection, that is a design created safety hazard that should be prohibited by code.
David
sparky_magoo
Senior Member
- Location
- Reno
CO is heavier than air. It floats on the floor. smoke is lighter than air, it rises to the ceiling. I was taught mount CO detectors near the floor. I find the idea of a CO/smoke combo. detector as absurd as AFCI breakers.
Electron_Sam78
Senior Member
- Location
- Palm Bay, FL
sparky_magoo said:CO is heavier than air. It floats on the floor. smoke is lighter than air, it rises to the ceiling. I was taught mount CO detectors near the floor. I find the idea of a CO/smoke combo. detector as absurd as AFCI breakers.
So really the safest bet would be sleep on the top level of a bunk bed with your CO detector on the floor :grin:
Electron_Sam78 said:
Safest bet is not to have any devices in your home that operate on combustion.
But that's not going to happen with most people. . What I've chosen to do in my house is throw out my CO/smoke combo. . And I'm pitching my gas range and buying a flat top electric. . That'll limit my combustible devices to the basement [hotwater tank, furnace, dryer]. . Then in the basement I'll put in a stand alone CO detector on the ceiling and another one somewhere within 2 feet of the floor back partially behind the hotwater tank where it won't get covered or hit by something. . Plus I'll tie the CO detectors into the interconnect of the smokes.
All of which isn't required in Ohio.
But I've had the basement CO detector [the combo that I'm ripping out] save the lives of my whole family at about 2 o'clock one night/morning about 5 years ago. . It woke us up squawking in the basement and when I checked the digital display detector on the first floor it was at 150 and ticking up and up at about 10 per minute. . I don?t think any of us would have woken up the next morning. . Low level CO poisoning makes you feel like you have the flu and getting sick gives you the headsup that something?s wrong. . Hi level CO kills you before you wakeup.
David
Electron_Sam78
Senior Member
- Location
- Palm Bay, FL
dnem said:
Yeah, I have all electric myself. I'm loyal to my trade what can I say! The only possible source of CO in my house is the wood burning fire place.
sparky_magoo said:CO is heavier than air. It floats on the floor. smoke is lighter than air, it rises to the ceiling. I was taught mount CO detectors near the floor. I find the idea of a CO/smoke combo. detector as absurd as AFCI breakers.
According to the EPA http://www.epa.gov/iaq/co.html the specific gravity of CO is 0.96716, just ever so slightly lighter than air. But it is close enough to 1 that it will not matter whether the detector is high or low.
Based on the information from the EPA and other sources that I have seen, the idea that carbon monoxide will sink to the floor is just a myth not supported by fact. I wonder if this common myth comes from the fact that carbon dioxide is indeed heavier than air, about 1.5 times as heavy as air according to this source: http://www.uigi.com/carbondioxide.html. It may also have something to do with the fact that propane is heavier than air with a specific gravity of about 1.52.
eprice said:
I don't believe it's a myth, I believe it's just a matter of exactly what is being addressed. . CO might be .9something when pure but when mixed with the humidity of car exhaust it becomes heavier than air. . So sometimes CO rises, sometimes it falls.
David
I'm not knowledgable enough on the subject to debate what effect water vapor from car exhaust will have on the behavior of CO. But I do think that at a specific gravity of .9 something or if it is a bit above 1 (if the exhaust can cause that), the difference in weight between the CO and the air will not be enough to overcome the effect of convection currents that will exist in any room. Because of this, I think that it will neither sink to the floor, nor rise to the ceiling. I think it will be mixed in with the rest of the air in the room. A CO detector mounted high or low would probably work equally well.
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
If we took into account all of the parameters available, we would have a difficult time with different installations.
Follow the manufacturers installation instructions, of which there are different install requirements.
And yes, in general the myth that CO is heavier than air is a MYTH.
Sometimes it is hard for us to let go of ideas we have had for years, just to find out it is a myth.
Follow the manufacturers installation instructions, of which there are different install requirements.
And yes, in general the myth that CO is heavier than air is a MYTH.
Sometimes it is hard for us to let go of ideas we have had for years, just to find out it is a myth.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Pierre C Belarge said:
I agree, it really is that simple.
I'm going to stick with the plan I said in a post at the top of this page
"Then in the basement I'll put in a stand alone CO detector on the ceiling and another one somewhere within 2 feet of the floor back partially behind the hotwater tank where it won't get covered or hit by something."
"Then in the basement I'll put in a stand alone CO detector on the ceiling and another one somewhere within 2 feet of the floor back partially behind the hotwater tank where it won't get covered or hit by something."
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