Cable Guard

[fbhwt]

Military base "High Voltage Electricians" used cable guard to cover wires coming off of secondary side of pole mounted transformer, down pole to trench and ending at panel, no meter, no utility company involved. I'm looking at article 300, 300.5 Underground Installations. They are telling me this is code compliant. Thoughts anyone?

 

[kwired]

Does NEC apply to this installation?

Cable guard I'm assuming is a U shaped channel attached to the pole. You wouldn't used it other than on the pole, and when applying 300.5 we have to assume they are using conductors rated for direct burial?

 

[Sparks4All]

Could it be possible that the military is exempt from public utilities?

 

[kwired]

Could it be possible that the military is exempt from public utilities?

You mean local inspections? I think some cases yes.

Public utilities, they likely will use them where they are the better option. Could be possible that a base is served by public utility at high/medium voltage and the base has it's own distribution system from that point, but would guess that is not the case most of the time.

 

[fbhwt]

Does NEC apply to this installation?

Cable guard I'm assuming is a U shaped channel attached to the pole. You wouldn't used it other than on the pole, and when applying 300.5 we have to assume they are using conductors rated for direct burial?

The direct bury cable is rated for such, however the problem I have is, the "high voltage electricians" who work for "facilities maintenance "on base did the work and did not follow the National electrical code. Article 300- General Requirements For Wiring Methods and Materials, 300.5 Underground Installations, 300.5(D)(1), 300.5(D)(3), 300.5(D)(4), 300.5(D)(F). I have had issues in the past with the "high voltage electricians", on the outside they are
called "linemen" and that is what they are. The utility company is not involved any way shape or form with this installation, this is not metered, coming directly off of secondary of pole mounted transformer provided by facilities maintenance to feed 200 amp outdoor panel.

 

[kwired]

The direct bury cable is rated for such, however the problem I have is, the "high voltage electricians" who work for "facilities maintenance "on base did the work and did not follow the National electrical code. Article 300- General Requirements For Wiring Methods and Materials, 300.5 Underground Installations, 300.5(D)(1), 300.5(D)(3), 300.5(D)(4), 300.5(D)(F). I have had issues in the past with the "high voltage electricians", on the outside they are
called "linemen" and that is what they are. The utility company is not involved any way shape or form with this installation, this is not metered, coming directly off of secondary of pole mounted transformer provided by facilities maintenance to feed 200 amp outdoor panel.

Does NEC apply to their installation?

They are equivalent to "linemen" outside the base - cable guard can be common to run the secondary down a pole from there is either direct buried or transition to conventional raceway methods. I would guess it is NESC acceptable method.

 

[fbhwt]

Does NEC apply to their installation?

They are equivalent to "linemen" outside the base - cable guard can be common to run the secondary down a pole from there is either direct buried or transition to conventional raceway methods. I would guess it is NESC acceptable method.

According to the base order, all electrical work will be done in accordance with the most current National Electrical Code, being that they are called "high voltage electricians" I would think that they would follow the NEC not the NESC which is what "linemen" follow while performing work on the distribution side. I have had problems with the "high voltage electricians" in the past, along the same lines, direct buried cable buried 3" in the ground, no flagging ribbon and actually left out the ground and had to dig it back up. Not long after that they had to do a repair because we lost a leg due to the backfill full of jagged concrete and rock. Because we are a military installation they don't call for inspection after doing work, something that needs to done. It is assumed that because you say that you know what you are doing you are following all rules and regulations set forth by base standards.

 

[fbhwt]

You mean local inspections? I think some cases yes.

Public utilities, they likely will use them where they are the better option. Could be possible that a base is served by public utility at high/medium voltage and the base has it's own distribution system from that point, but would guess that is not the case most of the time.

We receive power from two different utilities, as I understand we pay a flat rate, meters have been installed on some buildings just to monitor usage,
some building have LED lighting, VFD's to lower cost. We have photovoltaic systems on some buildings and large arrays in parking areas. All new work is suppose to be inspected by the contracting officer and the engineering technician. Some are knowledgeable some are not. I found a indoor rated transfer switch mounted outside and in use shortly after I started working here. The work was inspected and approved by the engineering technician who obviously didn't know the difference between a type1 and NEMA 3R enclosure.

 

[kwired]

Are you military, civilian, contractor, something else?

Is there someone higher up to bring any code issues up to? Kind of guessing not, at least no one on the base that is qualified in this area.
Basically who or what is the AHJ? Sounds like people you mentioned are first line sort of like a city inspector is in many other situations, but is there someone above them in whatever the structure of "AHJ" is for this situation? If no one is above them, you might be fighting a losing battle unless you can convince them they are wrong.

 

[fbhwt]

Are you military, civilian, contractor, something else?

Is there someone higher up to bring any code issues up to? Kind of guessing not, at least no one on the base that is qualified in this area.
Basically who or what is the AHJ? Sounds like people you mentioned are first line sort of like a city inspector is in many other situations, but is there someone above them in whatever the structure of "AHJ" is for this situation? If no one is above them, you might be fighting a losing battle unless you can convince them they are wrong.

I am a federal employee, I work for facilities maintenance as a electrical systems inspector. I started out here as an electrician, I have asked as long as I've been here; who is the authority having jurisdiction? At one time I posed the question to the base commander, I was told indirectly by the "Director, Installations and Environment" as follows; "According to the NEC, the AHJ at government installations is the CO or department official. In our case I can't see the CO being designated as the AHJ unless the electrical work in question was being done by a department outside of GF and they are willing to make the corrections. That would ultimately make me the AHJ for concerns you have with electrical work that is not up to code". I've been fighting this battle since I've been here the past nine years, I don't have this problem when it's something a contractor has done for obvious reasons. It's different for some reason when I deal with the so called "high voltage electricians" who are also federal employees. I think things will be changing here soon, one of my jobs here is maintaining the lightning protection on base; explosive and non-explosive. I've gotten to know the deputy director over base safety, I think once I get him involved things will change. I started this post to see if anyone else has run into this as a federal employee.

 

[kwired]

NEC has a definition for AHJ, but it it basically just recognizes a person or entity for the sake of applying code. It does not get involved in selecting who or what holds said title.

Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ).
An organization, office, or individual responsible for enforcing the requirements of a code or standard, or for approving equipment, materials, an installation, or a procedure.

Informational Note: The phrase “authority having jurisdiction,” or its acronym AHJ, is used in NFPA documents in a broad manner, since jurisdictions and approval agencies vary, as do their responsibilities. Where public safety is primary, the authority having jurisdiction may be a federal, state, local, or other regional department or individual such as a fire chief; fire marshal; chief of a fire prevention bureau, labor department, or health department; building official; electrical inspector; or others having statutory authority. For insurance purposes, an insurance inspection department, rating bureau, or other insurance company representative may be the authority having jurisdiction. In many circumstances, the property owner or his or her designated agent assumes the role of the authority having jurisdiction; at government installations, the commanding officer or departmental official may be the authority having jurisdiction.

I find it hard to believe a base commander would be actively involved with ordinary AHJ activity. That person may oversee the AHJ to some extent but because said commander likely has no qualifications in this particular field would leave such decisions in this area to whoever is on his staff that has more qualifications in the area.

Same goes for other types of work, and something relating to current worldwide situation - If there is a health threat to the base, the base commander may give some general orders to the entire base related to health, but likely will have a top health official on their base helping them make this decision.

 

[kwired]

Your battle appears to be first establishing your authority, and second establishing whether or not NEC is the standard to be followed.

That is where the base commander and/or some of those one step lower than him may be of some help, particularly anyone that has qualifications to help back you up with their professional opinions.

This sort of thing happens in civilian applications as well - particularly city AHJ's. Some can be pretty ignorant and not know their stuff and installers get away with a lot of non code compliant stuff, others are on the other end of the extremes and enforce their own rules instead of what code says.

 

[fbhwt]

Your battle appears to be first establishing your authority, and second establishing whether or not NEC is the standard to be followed.

That is where the base commander and/or some of those one step lower than him may be of some help, particularly anyone that has qualifications to help back you up with their professional opinions.

This sort of thing happens in civilian applications as well - particularly city AHJ's. Some can be pretty ignorant and not know their stuff and installers get away with a lot of non code compliant stuff, others are on the other end of the extremes and enforce their own rules instead of what code says.

You would think it fall on the person with the most knowledge of the subject matter, what is going to happen is I will present my case with references and the other side theirs. Someone will then make a decision, I have in the past found serious code violations on new construction, I presented the facts to the contracting officer, had a sit down with both the contractor and contracting officer and came to a resolution. On the outside this would not happen because of the checks and balances we have during construction. Here its a different story, things are done knowing it won't be scrutinized and they roll the dice.

 

[kwired]

If you were to take over "on the outside" for a long time inspector that wasn't really doing that great of a job enforcing code, I think you would find yourself in similar position. The contractors would know what they have gotten away with and continue to do that, or some may not even know they are doing things wrong and would think you are evil when you showed up and was forcing them to change their ways.