Cable Tray and Water Lines
- Thread starter griffey
- Start date
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- Location
- Mission Viejo, CA
- Occupation
- Professional Electrical Engineer
Re: Cable Tray and Water Lines
There is a general restriction in Section 300.8 and it makes no distinction for barriers.
There is a general restriction in Section 300.8 and it makes no distinction for barriers.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician (retired)
Re: Cable Tray and Water Lines
300.8 restricts the use of conductors with other systems in raceways and cable trays. It doesn't prohibit the use of 480 volt cables with other systems in the same cable tray.
300.8 restricts the use of conductors with other systems in raceways and cable trays. It doesn't prohibit the use of 480 volt cables with other systems in the same cable tray.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
Re: Cable Tray and Water Lines
300.8 Installation of Conductors with Other Systems.
Raceways or cable trays containing electric conductors shall not contain any pipe, tube, or equal for steam, water, air, gas, drainage, or any service other than electrical.
This has nothing to do with voltage levels. It flat out prohibits you from installing these type of things in raceways containing electric conductors.
It does not prohibit you from securing such things along the raceway. You just can't put it IN the raceway.
Of course you would probably not want steam lines along an electrical raceway since this would require you to figure out how hot that area would be and derate accordingly.
One could argue, that a cable tray with a barrier down the center is in effect two raceways, one for the electric conductors and one for non-electric stuff. I don't know how far that argument would get you with someone who was picky about things.
It is somewhat analogous to using the barrier to seperate conductors that could not normally be in the same raceway together.
[ June 04, 2005, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: petersonra ]
300.8 Installation of Conductors with Other Systems.
Raceways or cable trays containing electric conductors shall not contain any pipe, tube, or equal for steam, water, air, gas, drainage, or any service other than electrical.
This has nothing to do with voltage levels. It flat out prohibits you from installing these type of things in raceways containing electric conductors.
It does not prohibit you from securing such things along the raceway. You just can't put it IN the raceway.
Of course you would probably not want steam lines along an electrical raceway since this would require you to figure out how hot that area would be and derate accordingly.
One could argue, that a cable tray with a barrier down the center is in effect two raceways, one for the electric conductors and one for non-electric stuff. I don't know how far that argument would get you with someone who was picky about things.
It is somewhat analogous to using the barrier to seperate conductors that could not normally be in the same raceway together.
[ June 04, 2005, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: petersonra ]
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician (retired)
Re: Cable Tray and Water Lines
I would argue that there is a difference between 'conductors' and 'cables'. Open conductors cannot be mixed with piping from other systems in a cable tray but cables MC, AC, etc. could be.
Re: Cable Tray and Water Lines
Infinity:
I was about half sold, but I don't quite buy your argument. (The fact that neither "conductor" or "cable" is defined in 100 doesn't help your case either.)
The first reason I would disagree is that: Cables contain conductors. So if you install cables in the same tray with other systems, you are still installing conductors in the same tray.
Also consider this. If the "other system" is water lines for example, the intent is obviously to keep the "conductors" from getting soaked from water from a leaking hose. But neither MC or AC cable is waterproof. So the "conductors" will still get soaked in water.
I also don't buy into the divider. It would not be watertight, and water could still get into the conductor section.
Steve
Infinity:
I was about half sold, but I don't quite buy your argument. (The fact that neither "conductor" or "cable" is defined in 100 doesn't help your case either.)
The first reason I would disagree is that: Cables contain conductors. So if you install cables in the same tray with other systems, you are still installing conductors in the same tray.
Also consider this. If the "other system" is water lines for example, the intent is obviously to keep the "conductors" from getting soaked from water from a leaking hose. But neither MC or AC cable is waterproof. So the "conductors" will still get soaked in water.
I also don't buy into the divider. It would not be watertight, and water could still get into the conductor section.
Steve
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician (retired)
Re: Cable Tray and Water Lines
For example in 334.2 Definitions:
" Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable . A factory assembly of two or more insulated conductors enclosed within an overall nonmetallic jacket." So according to this definition and similar definitions at the beginning of the other articles relating to cables, there is a difference between a cable and conductors. 300.8 specifically uses the word conductors not cables therefore cables are permitted with other systems in a cabletray. To say that cables are conductors simply because they contain them, IMO is incorrect.
It seems as if your quote implies that there isn't a difference between cables and conductors. Although the NEC doesn't define conductors or cables in Article 100, it doesn't mean that the two terms aren't defined elsewhere.
For example in 334.2 Definitions:
" Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable . A factory assembly of two or more insulated conductors enclosed within an overall nonmetallic jacket." So according to this definition and similar definitions at the beginning of the other articles relating to cables, there is a difference between a cable and conductors. 300.8 specifically uses the word conductors not cables therefore cables are permitted with other systems in a cabletray. To say that cables are conductors simply because they contain them, IMO is incorrect.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
Re: Cable Tray and Water Lines
I don't agree that the intent is especially obvious, or that the intent is to protect from a leak. If that was the case, I would think they would have specified the use of conductors rated for damp areas, and not totally prohibted such an installation. The code does not require you to protect wiring from getting wet due to extraordinary circumstances, only that you use conductors rated for damp areas when the conductors will normally get damp.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: Cable Tray and Water Lines
Anybody subscribe to Popular Mechanics?
They had a cool article that had a tidbit about this very thing.
They seem to believe that housing in the future will be completely modular, and water pipes, electrical, data, everything will be side by side.
Pretty cool, but I hope I never see the day.
Anybody subscribe to Popular Mechanics?
They had a cool article that had a tidbit about this very thing.
They seem to believe that housing in the future will be completely modular, and water pipes, electrical, data, everything will be side by side.
Pretty cool, but I hope I never see the day.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: Cable Tray and Water Lines
If you look at Article 392 it gives a list of wiring methods that is allowed in cable tray. You do not see water lines listed.
If you look at Article 392 it gives a list of wiring methods that is allowed in cable tray. You do not see water lines listed.
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