cables in panel for rough in

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Dennis Alwon said:
In order to get temp. power to a residence in NC there are state mandated guidelines. One of the stipulations is that only GFCI circuits are energized for 120 volt receptacles.
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Have you seen it?

Or is it just thats how it's always been.

I fully agree there might be a local ordinance, I mentioned that possibility in two of my posts in this thread.

That said I am always suspect of 'guidelines' that no one has actually seen an adopted rule for.
 
iwire said:
Have you seen it?

Or is it just thats how it's always been.

I fully agree there might be a local ordinance, I mentioned that possibility in two of my posts in this thread.

That said I am always suspect of 'guidelines' that no one has actually seen an adopted rule for.
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Here it is

10.8.2 Provisions for Temporary Power. The Code enforcement official shall give permission and issue a permit to energize the electrical service when the provisions of 10.8 and the following requirements have been met:
1) The service wiring and equipment, including the meter socket enclosure, shall be installed, the service wiring terminated, and the service equipment covers installed.
2) The portions of the electrical system that are to be energized shall be complete and physically protected.
3) The grounding electrode system shall be complete.
4) The grounding and the grounded conductors shall be terminated in the service equipment.
5) At least one receptacle outlet with ground fault circuit interrupter protection for personnel shall be installed with the circuit wiring terminated.
6) The applicable requirements of the North Carolina Electrical Code shall apply.
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Dennis Alwon said:
One of the stipulations is that only GFCI circuits are energized for 120 volt receptacles.
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iwire said:
Have you seen it?
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Dennis Alwon said:
Here it is
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5) At least one receptacle outlet with ground fault circuit interrupter protection for personnel shall be installed with the circuit wiring terminated.

Dennis I don't see that prohibiting me from doing anything. I see that it requires I provide at least one single receptacle with GFCI protection.
 
iwire said:
5) At least one receptacle outlet with ground fault circuit interrupter protection for personnel shall be installed with the circuit wiring terminated.

Dennis I don't see that prohibiting me from doing anything. I see that it requires I provide at least one single receptacle with GFCI protection.
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I have to agree with you . I believe it is poorly worded but I will have to check on this. I think the liability would be an issue if you energize a circuit without GFCI protection. There is no way that you can make sure every sub uses a cord with GFCI protection. I will check with the state on it's officially interpretation. I suspect that it was meant to read that at least one but all must be GFCI --- At least that is what is being enforced and I really don't have an issue with that. Now I can see on commercially jobs it would be a royal PITA to have GFCI spread out throughout the building.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
There is no way that you can make sure every sub uses a cord with GFCI protection.
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Correct, you can not and it should not be the ECs responsibility to do so.

OSHA clearly recognizes that and I think the NEC does as well with the allowances for cord sets.

Imagine this.

Your remodeling part of an existing dwelling.

Is it the ECs responsibility to either disconnect the existing circuits or provide GFCI protection for the existing circuits that are not being remodeled?

We both know tradespeople might plug into the hallway receptacle while they remodel the bathroom.

IMO it is not our responsibility and we should not be quick to allow inspectors to make it part of our responsibility and liability.

At the same time I realize it is a real world outside this forum and we each have to choose our battles. :)
 
temporary power

temporary power

a "sister" question to the requirements for "temporary service power"
Do any of you have requiremnts in regard to "open ended circuits"?
I have always "requested" that contractors not terminate circuits with open-end wiring on the breakers and then request the service be energized. I am uneasy about making a readily accessible panel "hot" with the circuits open ended.
 
augie47 said:
a "sister" question to the requirements for "temporary service power"
Do any of you have requiremnts in regard to "open ended circuits"?
I have always "requested" that contractors not terminate circuits with open-end wiring on the breakers and then request the service be energized. I am uneasy about making a readily accessible panel "hot" with the circuits open ended.
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Augie I always either a) tape together the conductors not being energized or b) form the wire to the breakers but wirenut with a small cap right at the breaker. Inspectors want them capped so they cannot accidentally be energized. I agree with that decision
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Augie I always either a) tape together the conductors not being energized or b) form the wire to the breakers but wirenut with a small cap right at the breaker. Inspectors want them capped so they cannot accidentally be energized. I agree with that decision
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I disagree with the inspector wanting that done, but I agree that something along that lines is a good idea. I generally take some scrap pieces and bundle all the hots, and tie them over along the gutter of the panel by some means. That's a lot of wasted wire nuts, otherwise. I forget what 73B's cost, but the new red one's with the rubber on them are around 27 cents a piece.

Reminds me of a story a guy shared on here a few months back. A contractor threw a few wire nuts on the floor, along with some nickels, dimes, and quarters prior to the end of the day sweep-up. He noticed that they guys picked out the change and left the equally valuable wire nuts in with the floor sweepings.
 
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open end wiring

open end wiring

marc, do you diagree with a particular method or with the inspector wanting that addressed in general ?
 
augie47 said:
marc, do you diagree with a particular method or with the inspector wanting that addressed in general ?
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I only disagree with the particular method (wire nuts), because it is unnecessarily wasteful of material. Isolating the conductors by some means, be it tying or a wrap of tape or whatever, does have merit in my opinion. I also disagree with the inspector wanting it. An inspector wanting something is akin to him ordering it as many might interpret it. I'd rather not have an inspector put me in the position of having to decipher the difference between his wants and his orders.
 
JKinPA said:
Are you required to have all the cables pulled into the breaker panel for the rough inspection? Thanks, Jeff
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I do not require this as a condition of rough-in. I look the panelboard over very carefully during the final inspection. :)
 
mdshunk said:
I disagree with the inspector wanting that done, but I agree that something along that lines is a good idea. I generally take some scrap pieces and bundle all the hots, and tie them over along the gutter of the panel by some means. That's a lot of wasted wire nuts, otherwise. I forget what 73B's cost, but the new red one's with the rubber on them are around 27 cents a piece.
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You pay way too much for your wirenuts. I pay about .08 or .10 cents apiece for the reds. The inspectors do not require the wirenuts but do want them tape so they can't get energized. If I have the breakers in I will formed the wire to the breaker and then wirenut it. My choice. The wirenuts with one wire in it are reuseable---they are not wasted. I do this if I have time and want to get ahead so I am not rushed at the final. Pop off the nut and put it under the breaker. Voila. I don't spend the time having to form the wires etc. when I usually am pushed a little to get done.
 
always..

always..

I always get all my branch circuits/feeders into the panel and stripped out during rough.

I land my grounds and neutrals and strip 2" off the ends of my hots. I then use a "bell set" which consists of a 9V siren, a 9V battery encased in a four squre/blank with a cord coming out of a knock out with alligator clips crimped on two conductors. I spiral a piece of bare wire around the ends of the hots, clamp on a gator, and then clamp on the other gator to the ground bus. This allows me to go through the house after make up, clipping the ends of the hot and ground with my strippers, thus closing the circuit, making the panel "ring" when the circuit is continuous. This of course only works when you pigtail everything, and pigtail ground for switches which is a trade standard of mine.
I would agree to most guys who have a tight, solid crew that this can be tedious and a downright waste of time, but it keeps you from missing jumpers and the occasional home run, if you've pecked away at the project. It doesn't take that long, plus you look cool to the GC...;)
 
yeah..

yeah..

I know it's goofy, but I started out wiring houses for a company that exploits cheap labor, and not everybody spoke the same language, literally. This practice was adopted to ensure circuits actually made it back to the panel, forcing foremen to be completely accountable for their crew, and now it's just a silly, yet effective habit..
 
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