California Fire

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RICK NAPIER

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Saw an article that blames a 2015 fire on faulty hot tub wiring in the home of [FONT=&quot]John and Cindy Pinch and was wondering if anyone knows more details as to how the hot tub caused the fire.[/FONT]
 
Here's another story dealing with a different fire, started by faulty wiring, here in CA.

Homeowner Sued for $25 Million Over California Wildfire
August 09, 2016 ​
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Liability for faulty electrical work has reached new heights.
As electricians you make it your responsibility to do safe installations and repairs, but here's a great reason to educate your customers, and ensure that they understand that having old, unsafe, unchecked electrical work can hurt not only them, but others as well, and potentially have a huge financial impact on them.
Last month, the Federal government sued a homeowner for nearly $25 million, contending his negligence sparked a 2013 fire in the mountains east of Los Angeles. It's a fire that forced 5,000 people from their homes and endangered countless lives, including those of the firefighters that battled the blaze.
AP News report on 7/15: the lawsuit says that a short in a poorly maintained electrical junction box sparked a blaze in the San Jacinto Mountains above Palm Springs that charred more than 27,500 acres of brush and timber — about 43 square miles — and at one point threatened the town of Idyllwild.
Investigators determined that the lid of the plastic box containing wires was warped and ajar, the lawsuit said.
"As a result, an electrical discharge inside the box shot sparks and hot material out of the box and onto dry ground vegetation below," according to the lawsuit.
"Property owners and their agents have a responsibility to ensure that property under their control is maintained in a safe fashion," U.S. Attorney Eileen M. Decker said in a statement.
Read the full story.
Mike Holt's comment: This is crazy.




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I suspect that if I had a dollar for every outside j-box in this country that didn't have a properly secured lid ... it might add up to $25 million.
 
cowboyjwc said:
Here's another story dealing with a different fire, started by faulty wiring, here in CA.

Homeowner Sued for $25 Million Over California Wildfire

August 09, 2016 ​

​


Liability for faulty electrical work has reached new heights.
As electricians you make it your responsibility to do safe installations and repairs, but here's a great reason to educate your customers, and ensure that they understand that having old, unsafe, unchecked electrical work can hurt not only them, but others as well, and potentially have a huge financial impact on them.
Last month, the Federal government sued a homeowner for nearly $25 million, contending his negligence sparked a 2013 fire in the mountains east of Los Angeles. It's a fire that forced 5,000 people from their homes and endangered countless lives, including those of the firefighters that battled the blaze.
AP News report on 7/15: the lawsuit says that a short in a poorly maintained electrical junction box sparked a blaze in the San Jacinto Mountains above Palm Springs that charred more than 27,500 acres of brush and timber — about 43 square miles — and at one point threatened the town of Idyllwild.
Investigators determined that the lid of the plastic box containing wires was warped and ajar, the lawsuit said.
"As a result, an electrical discharge inside the box shot sparks and hot material out of the box and onto dry ground vegetation below," according to the lawsuit.
"Property owners and their agents have a responsibility to ensure that property under their control is maintained in a safe fashion," U.S. Attorney Eileen M. Decker said in a statement.
Read the full story.
Mike Holt's comment: This is crazy.




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That suit is so bogus if from a junction box. You would think the US attorney would have more to go on then that. Even then were is the willful negligence that rises to the level of a multi- millon dollar claim. The persons Homeowner policy will hopefully cover a win by the govt.
 
Sierrasparky said:
That suit is so bogus if from a junction box. You would think the US attorney would have more to go on then that. Even then were is the willful negligence that rises to the level of a multi- millon dollar claim. The persons Homeowner policy will hopefully cover a win by the govt.
Click to expand...

I have a fairly typical homeowners policy, and the liability limit is $300,000 per occurrence. That would leave just $24,700,000 that I need to check the couch cushions for. :happysad:
 
gadfly56 said:
I have a fairly typical homeowners policy, and the liability limit is $300,000 per occurrence. That would leave just $24,700,000 that I need to check the couch cushions for. :happysad:
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Since that may be the case. What is the point. The govt. will never collect more than the policy. The people will declare bankruptcy.

I would think there is more to this story. Sounds like the govt. wants to harm these people or take their property. Either way that is screwed up. :?
 
Sierrasparky said:
Since that may be the case. What is the point. The govt. will never collect more than the policy. The people will declare bankruptcy.

I would think there is more to this story. Sounds like the govt. wants to harm these people or take their property. Either way that is screwed up. :?
Click to expand...

If I had to guess, someone is trying to make a name for themselves either for advancement within their organization or to launch a political career. Yes, I am that cynical.
 
Details on the Valley Fire (2015) mentioned in the beginning. Lots of details, bottom line: DIY hack job involving using Romex laying on the ground, connected by wire nuts and maybe wrapped with duct tape.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/5...owners-faulty-hot?gallery=4502218&artslide=33

On the one in SoCal, I heard the issue behind that lawsuit is that the guy is a feeeeelthy rich Saudi citizen doing business in LA but living part time in the mountains above Palm Springs, i.e. he could have afforded to have had it done right and maintained it correctly but neglected it. Supposedly the house was worth millions, so the insurance was very high, yet money not covered by his insurance is not going to hurt him much either...
 
Reading through the so called investigation , apparently the homeowner admitted to bootlegging the Spa Tub that was claimed to cause the fire.

Other than proving that this electrical was not the proximate cause of the fire this owner goose is cooked.

No permit and not to code wiring is gonna nab you!
 
A relative sold a house in Cobb just before the fire & moved out of State, :thumbsup: the house did survive so they and the new owners were lucky, well the new owners maybe not so lucky, they are still in CA. If this is proven, that plumber is at the least going to be a pariah in the community, and legal troubles are just beginning, people who hack up electrical work may wish to consider the consequences & devastation of their actions, but in reality they won't.
 
dmxtothemax said:
http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/hot-tub-electrical-wiring-170482/

this articule has pictures of this very fire and likely cause
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You need to download the entire report and look at the pictures. Also read the transcript of the investigator with the homeowner. The homeowner was less than truthful with the investigator.

The fire started in the yard of the homeowner and moved away leaving the house intact. The owner is not going to win unless he has a great attorney that can pull a rabbit out of his axx.
 
Jraef said:
Details on the Valley Fire (2015) mentioned in the beginning. Lots of details, bottom line: DIY hack job involving using Romex laying on the ground, connected by wire nuts and maybe wrapped with duct tape.
Click to expand...

I hope for the sake of any news reports naming Romex by tradename that the cable is in fact Southwire mfg and not some other NM cable lest they get smashed with a defamation lawsuit.
 
JFletcher said:
I hope for the sake of any news reports naming Romex by tradename that the cable is in fact Southwire mfg and not some other NM cable lest they get smashed with a defamation lawsuit.
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They aren't saying that the "Romex" was being used correctly and caused the fire, are they? If a news reporter says someone caused an accident through their own recklessness while driving a Honda when they were actually driving a Nissan, I don't believe that Honda could or would sue them.
 
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I didn't interpret that to mean the WIRE was the cause. The WIRING was. I think the mention of Romex was intended to emphasize just how inept the wiring job was, based on the fact they used indoor rated NM wire outdoors, plus it was laying on the ground, spliced with wire nuts, covered in duct tape, etc etc.

However, it's not as if UF done the same way would have likely made a difference ...

A childhood neighbor (no longer a friend) moved up there years ago to grow pot, then got into meth and had a meth lab. He is in prison now, but when he was taken away a few years ago, I helped his sister put his stuff in storage (I think the storage facility burned in the fire now). Not only was his place a disaster waiting to happen, it seemed to me that almost every place we drove by was like that, anarchy in terms of construction standards, everyone doing their own thing. I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. I drove from Huntsville Ala. into the hills of Tennessee once, that looked bad to me at the time, but this was worse. The people there were poor, but seemed to care. These people in Cobb Mountain were not poor, they were just totally out of it.
 
gadfly56 said:
I have a fairly typical homeowners policy, and the liability limit is $300,000 per occurrence. That would leave just $24,700,000 that I need to check the couch cushions for. :happysad:
Click to expand...

I can't speak for California but I've been told by attorneys in Florida that if a plaintiff demands settlement of the policy limits and the insurance company refuses to pay the claim, and it goes to court, the policy limits no longer exist.

So if that rich Saudi whatever he is had $5MM insurance and the government demanded the $5MM from his insurance company and it was refused, the gov't as plaintiff can sue and those limits no longer apply. The gov't can collect the entire $25MM plus the cost of prosecution if they can prove the fire was his fault and prove that they were harmed in an amount of $25MM.

It makes me wonder if others will jump on the lawsuit as class-action. If you spent 4 nights in a hotel you were harmed. And if your house burned you were really harmed.
 
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