California Fire

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cowboyjwc said:
Here's another story dealing with a different fire, started by faulty wiring, here in CA.

Homeowner Sued for $25 Million Over California Wildfire
August 09, 2016 ​
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Liability for faulty electrical work has reached new heights.
As electricians you make it your responsibility to do safe installations and repairs, but here's a great reason to educate your customers, and ensure that they understand that having old, unsafe, unchecked electrical work can hurt not only them, but others as well, and potentially have a huge financial impact on them.
Last month, the Federal government sued a homeowner for nearly $25 million, contending his negligence sparked a 2013 fire in the mountains east of Los Angeles. It's a fire that forced 5,000 people from their homes and endangered countless lives, including those of the firefighters that battled the blaze.
AP News report on 7/15: the lawsuit says that a short in a poorly maintained electrical junction box sparked a blaze in the San Jacinto Mountains above Palm Springs that charred more than 27,500 acres of brush and timber — about 43 square miles — and at one point threatened the town of Idyllwild.
Investigators determined that the lid of the plastic box containing wires was warped and ajar, the lawsuit said.
"As a result, an electrical discharge inside the box shot sparks and hot material out of the box and onto dry ground vegetation below," according to the lawsuit.
"Property owners and their agents have a responsibility to ensure that property under their control is maintained in a safe fashion," U.S. Attorney Eileen M. Decker said in a statement.
Read the full story.
Mike Holt's comment: This is crazy.



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Yet I have seen many times where open wiring on utility company poles fails shooting sparks and hot material onto the ground below, and sometimes starting fires. Even seen fallen medium voltage lines that started a fire.

Do they also sue POCO's in CA for starting fires, I'm sure that kind of thing probably happens there as well.
 
mgookin said:
I can't speak for California but I've been told by attorneys in Florida that if a plaintiff demands settlement of the policy limits and the insurance company refuses to pay the claim, and it goes to court, the policy limits no longer exist.

So if that rich Saudi whatever he is had $5MM insurance and the government demanded the $5MM from his insurance company and it was refused, the gov't as plaintiff can sue and those limits no longer apply. The gov't can collect the entire $25MM plus the cost of prosecution if they can prove the fire was his fault and prove that they were harmed in an amount of $25MM.

It makes me wonder if others will jump on the lawsuit as class-action. If you spent 4 nights in a hotel you were harmed. And if your house burned you were really harmed.
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I don't this guy in CA is a rich Saudi!.
 
iwire said:
Don't the utilities have some sort of immunity from things like this? Like cars hitting poles etc.
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That is a little of what I was getting at. If someone else can be blamed, they go for it. Even a city/state road maintenance crew possibly can start the fire and are likely immune to lawsuit, but a contractor rebuilding the road is fair game if the same exact actions started the fire.

If a car hits the pole then the driver likely gets sued more so then the utility.
 
kwired said:
That is a little of what I was getting at. If someone else can be blamed, they go for it. Even a city/state road maintenance crew possibly can start the fire and are likely immune to lawsuit, but a contractor rebuilding the road is fair game if the same exact actions started the fire.

If a car hits the pole then the driver likely gets sued more so then the utility.
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Well to be fair the pole did not jump out in the street.
 
kwired said:
That is a little of what I was getting at. If someone else can be blamed, they go for it. Even a city/state road maintenance crew possibly can start the fire and are likely immune to lawsuit, but a contractor rebuilding the road is fair game if the same exact actions started the fire.

If a car hits the pole then the driver likely gets sued more so then the utility.
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Not long after he turned 17 my little brother was driving Dad's Capri and took a corner a little too fast. The road was covered with leaves (probably blown there by a homeowner) and it had just rained. He took out the pole and Dad's insurance got dinged for it. I think Dad was torn between being grateful my brother was OK and wanting to kill him. Dad really liked that car. :D
 
y'all got me thinking about fires....
so i looked at the map....

tuesday morning, i've got work in
ventura, santa barbara, and santa cruz.
and three fires to drive thru that day.

looks like where i usually stay in santa cruz
is really near where the fire is at....

looks like it is 101.... the coast highway is closed.

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]#SoberanesFire [update] near Big Sur (Monterey County)
remains at 72,566 acres & 60% contained.

[/COLOR]Structures Threatened: 410
Structures Destroyed: 57 homes, 11 outbuildings
Structures Damaged: 3 structures, 2 outbuildings
Injuries: 1 fatality, 3 injuries
Cause: Illegal Campfire


 
Fulthrotl said:
y'all got me thinking about fires....
so i looked at the map....

tuesday morning, i've got work in
ventura, santa barbara, and santa cruz.
and three fires to drive thru that day.

looks like where i usually stay in santa cruz
is really near where the fire is at....

looks like it is 101.... the coast highway is closed.

[/IMG][/URL]
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Highway 1, not 101. 101 is about 25 miles inland. My sister just drove up from SoCal on 101, she said the smoke was thick across the highway even that far away. I was in Moss Landing last week, which is 1/2 way between Santa Cruz and Monterrey, my eyes were watering from the smoke it was so thick.

The new one in Lake County, right on top of the huge fire from last year, just swept through downtown in the little community of Lower Lake, right along Main St. It's now on its way to the city of Clear Lake. 15,000 people in that area are being evacuated tonight. Just watched one news reporter doing her story live, and the Fire Chief came up to her while on camera and told here they were all trapped, the roads are all overrun by the fire. They have to stay put and wait it out. She was noticeably upset to say the least.

In the mean time, people in Baton Rouge are climbing on their roofs to escape the flooding... :slaphead:

If only there were some better way of moving water from where you don't want it to where you do (when they are separated by thousands of miles and not down hill).
 
Jraef said:
Highway 1, not 101. 101 is about 25 miles inland.
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yup. i wanted to do 1, 'cause.... well, 'cause it's
bitchin'.... but not when it's on fire.:weeping:

i'm looking at where it's burning, and where
breathing isn't advised. i'm spending tuesday
night at dream inn, in santa cruz, with the salt
breeze coming in off the water.....

and i'm not going to inhale. hell, it worked for
bill clinton.....

then a quick shuttle wed morning to merced,
and back home, hitting hollywood. all in all,
a good loop.

thursday and friday, san diego. i have to certify
the lights on the wall what's his name is gonna
build......
 
Jraef said:
Highway 1, not 101. 101 is about 25 miles inland. My sister just drove up from SoCal on 101, she said the smoke was thick across the highway even that far away. I was in Moss Landing last week, which is 1/2 way between Santa Cruz and Monterrey, my eyes were watering from the smoke it was so thick.

The new one in Lake County, right on top of the huge fire from last year, just swept through downtown in the little community of Lower Lake, right along Main St. It's now on its way to the city of Clear Lake. 15,000 people in that area are being evacuated tonight. Just watched one news reporter doing her story live, and the Fire Chief came up to her while on camera and told here they were all trapped, the roads are all overrun by the fire. They have to stay put and wait it out. She was noticeably upset to say the least.

In the mean time, people in Baton Rouge are climbing on their roofs to escape the flooding... :slaphead:

If only there were some better way of moving water from where you don't want it to where you do (when they are separated by thousands of miles and not down hill).
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Is there no prevailing west wind? Seems odd that you'd have wildfire smoke at Moss Landing.
 
kwired said:
Yet I have seen many times where open wiring on utility company poles fails shooting sparks and hot material onto the ground below, and sometimes starting fires. Even seen fallen medium voltage lines that started a fire.

Do they also sue POCO's in CA for starting fires, I'm sure that kind of thing probably happens there as well.
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They had one here a few years ago that they blamed on a utility pole, but I don't know what the outcome of that was.
 
Jraef said:
That's part of the problem, winds are very unusual right now.
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I spoke to a fire commander about that one time and he told me that when the fire get's big enough it creates it's own weather. So if it's burning hot enough and the air around it is cool enough it starts to make it's own wind.
 
cowboyjwc said:
I spoke to a fire commander about that one time and he told me that when the fire get's big enough it creates it's own weather. So if it's burning hot enough and the air around it is cool enough it starts to make it's own wind.
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Look up Dresden, Germany.
 
cowboyjwc said:
I spoke to a fire commander about that one time and he told me that when the fire get's big enough it creates it's own weather. So if it's burning hot enough and the air around it is cool enough it starts to make it's own wind.
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Simple convection going on here, heated air from the fire is going to rise, this air will replaced by pulling surface air from all directions if there isn't already any air current having any impact on the flow.

Prevailing westerly winds are at higher altitudes not the surface, they are what the weather across most of the US to travel in an easterly direction. They are created by global effects not local effects. Other conditions may push things north or south but not too often does upper air move from east to west, but lower level air may at times. All you need is a high or low pressure system to create some rotation and depending on where you are in relation to the center of that system the surface winds can be from any direction.

A big enough fire likely will cause enough heat to rise to create similar effects of low pressure system wind wise, and there would be rotation of incoming air causing a different wind direction depending on where you are in relation to the fire.
 
kwired said:
Simple convection going on here, heated air from the fire is going to rise, this air will replaced by pulling surface air from all directions if there isn't already any air current having any impact on the flow.

Prevailing westerly winds are at higher altitudes not the surface, they are what the weather across most of the US to travel in an easterly direction. They are created by global effects not local effects. Other conditions may push things north or south but not too often does upper air move from east to west, but lower level air may at times. All you need is a high or low pressure system to create some rotation and depending on where you are in relation to the center of that system the surface winds can be from any direction.

A big enough fire likely will cause enough heat to rise to create similar effects of low pressure system wind wise, and there would be rotation of incoming air causing a different wind direction depending on where you are in relation to the fire.
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Your west wind is backwards relative to the Earth's rotation. In the tropics and at the poles the prevailing wind is an East wind. The middle latitudes get the backwash and that's how you get a West wind.
 
mgookin said:
Your west wind is backwards relative to the Earth's rotation. In the tropics and at the poles the prevailing wind is an East wind. The middle latitudes get the backwash and that's how you get a West wind.
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I knew it had to do with Earth's rotation but couldn't remember why it is easterly in some areas and westerly in others.

If you are standing directly on north pole there is no east or west, every direction from there is south. You however can turn east or west.:cool:
 
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