Camera wiring - future proof

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marmathsen

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Seattle, Washington ...ish
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
The recent doorbell wiring thread got me thinking, what do others do to future proof for cameras. Is Cat6 good enough and assume POE or do you also run 18/2 (or Siamese)? How often is the 18/2 actually used?



Rob G
Seattle
 
hbiss said:
Most of them are now WiFi.

-Hal
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What brands are referring too? So you set up 120V? Or 12V?

I was under the impression that cheap consumer products like Ring or Blink or Nest are wifi but quality products from an AV supplier would be hardwired. Is that outdated thinking?

Rob G
Seattle
 
Most consumers aren't going to use pro grade CCTV cameras by their doors. All they know are Ring or Blink or Nest and that's what the OP is talking about.

If someone is going to go for a full boat system with multiple cameras throughout then it is the job of the security installer to decide what's needed.

-Hal
 
The good systems in the plants around here are all hardwired. They can zoom in really close. They can even tell what brand of cigarette someone sneaking a smoke is smoking. HR uses it for their social credit system, and to catch guys who forget to lock something out, or put their lock on the wrong lockout
 
Agree the better systems are hardwired to
a video server. Best resolution and security. Wi fi ring cameras are easy and popular, but wi fi signals can be blocked during break ins
I guess you get what you pay for.
 
jim dungar said:
But it is nice when power is run to them, from a doorbell transformer.
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Yes, unless you run power (14V-16V) from a transformer, the doorbell camera would have to be taken down to charge the battery. I get calls all the time about this. People buy the unit and don't realize the battery needs charging and hate to have to remember to take it down to charge. These are ones without an existing chime and button.
 
So then assuming someone may want to opt for a basic wifi version or a higher quality hardwired, the most reasonable "cover your butt" option would be to run 18/2 AND Cat5/6, right? Seems like 120v at every location would be way overkill right?

Rob G
Seattle
 
Seems like all the plant security systems I see see are powered by the CAT cable. The specifics of how, I never looked into.
 
Joethemechanic said:
Seems like all the plant security systems I see see are powered by the CAT cable. The specifics of how, I never looked into.
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Uhh, seems every friggin' thing is PoE powered these days. Cameras, speakers, access points, even lighting. Power is run on an unused pair in the cable. The router supplies the power. Matter of fact, I recently upgraded my WiFi access point and was surprised to learn that I had to get a new router that supplied more power.

-Hal
 
My first cameras were not POE and needed power but in some cases 18/2 had too much voltage drop and I ended up with 14/2. Replacement cameras are POE and have only Cat 6
 
augie47 said:
My first cameras were not POE and needed power but in some cases 18/2 had too much voltage drop and I ended up with 14/2. Replacement cameras are POE and have only Cat 6
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Hanging a Polaroid camera on the side of your house, with a string attached, does not count as a security camera!:p
 
marmathsen said:
The recent doorbell wiring thread got me thinking, what do others do to future proof for cameras. Is Cat6 good enough and assume POE or do you also run 18/2 (or Siamese)? How often is the 18/2 actually used?



Rob G
Seattle
Click to expand...
That, of course, depends on whether you are talking of a "one off" or a site that has embraced the technology (it is not uncommon -- and increasingly so -- to find places with multiple cameras -- even residences).

[I have about 30 cameras, here, as cameras are ubiquitous and provide more actionable information than other forms of sensors: wanna know if you've got mail? Recognize the mail truck coming to your mailbox and there's a good chance that he's not stopping there just to adjust his sunglasses!]

Doorbell cameras leverage existing wiring as an "ease of installation" issue.

Wireless/WiFi cameras rely on solar (outdoor) or batteries (ick!).

The future will almost definitely be PoE/PoE++ cameras as wireless cameras are vulnerable to snooping and interference and people quickly realize replacing yet another battery is annoying -- there's a reason we have 10 year smoke detectors!

Dedicated power and signal is obsolescent as it requires special cable(s) and is not as versatile as PoE -- where the signal carries power (depending on the technology, one or more pairs carry "DC" power as the AC signal is easily lifted off the transformers on each end of the cable).

CAT6e is probably overkill; I ran all CAT5e as the bandwidth easily fits within the 1MB/s ("Gbe") that the cable supports. CAT6 is more difficult to install, larger bend radius, more expensive, etc. Use CAT6 if you have a "trunk" that is servicing a downstream switch (so you can put multiple Gbe streams onto one set of conductors).

Watch for upcoming changes in PoE and ethernet technology, in general. "Single pair" is coming to replace the four-pair CAT5/6 cabling. And, lower voltages (have already been present in "nonconforming" implementations -- Cisco being one).
 
Ynibe said:
Watch for upcoming changes in PoE and ethernet technology, in general. "Single pair" is coming to replace the four-pair CAT5/6 cabling. And, lower voltages (have already been present in "nonconforming" implementations -- Cisco being one).
Click to expand...
I've been keeping an eye out for this SPE stuff, but so far none of my usual vendors (Caterpillar, ASCO, and Vertiv being the big three) have even mentioned it. Notably, CAT provides only a very slow 10BaseT on their EMCP 4.x family of controllers (which is probably a good idea given that you land the CAT5 on a terminal strip rather than a keystone).
 
ModbusMan said:
I've been keeping an eye out for this SPE stuff, but so far none of my usual vendors (Caterpillar, ASCO, and Vertiv being the big three) have even mentioned it. Notably, CAT provides only a very slow 10BaseT on their EMCP 4.x family of controllers (which is probably a good idea given that you land the CAT5 on a terminal strip rather than a keystone).
Click to expand...
It is intended to address simplified electronics and reduced cabling costs.

In the past, folks thought of CAT 5/6 as a means of interconnecting computers. Now, the electronics and software required to support ethernet-like protocols is so cheap that using older technologies (e.g., RS232) is almost criminal. Silly for my furnace/AHU to be constrained to eight "specialized" conductors to talk to the compressor when I can run a cheaper single pair and layer a protocol on top of them to convey far more information than the intents of those original conductors. Yet, not need to run at the same sort of bandwidth that my PC communicates with its mail server.
 
Ynibe said:
Silly for my furnace/AHU to be constrained to eight "specialized" conductors to talk to the compressor when I can run a cheaper single pair and layer a protocol on top of them to convey far more information than the intents of those original conductors. Yet, not need to run at the same sort of bandwidth that my PC communicates with its mail server.
Click to expand...
You've just described Modbus/RTU (1979) and BACnet/MSTP (1987).
 
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