Camper hook up question

S

sparkync

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
Got a call to check why a camper kept tripping a 50 amp breaker that was feeding a 50 amp camper 4 wire plug.
Long story short, found the 50 amp breaker was GFCI. The camper has its own gfci protected outlets inside, so I had to install a regular breaker to keep the family with power. While checking it I seen that the plug from the breaker was installed with only 3 wires instead of 4, therefore the whole camper is actually using the equipment ground for the neutral, from the outlet box back to the breaker. The only feasible way to correct this without pulling the 3 wire out of the ground, and pulling new 4 wire is to send only 120 volts over to the plug, and use the other leg (which is white anyway) as the insulated neutral, and just change the terminations in the boxes to match the camper cord. All the camper needs is 120 volts anyway. This prevents the potential of current traveling on the frame of appliances, etc., that are hooked to the equipment ground and neutral bar. Is this
correct? Even though the conductors are all separated until they get out to the 50 amp camper recetacle? They are using a 50 to 30 amp adapter, that reduces the voltage to 120 volts instead of 240 volts by using only 1 leg of the power supply.
I know according to code it should have been 4 wire out to the plug instead of 3 wire but is this still a hazard since the connection is out at the outlet and not inside the camper? Sorry for the long discourse but trying to determine the necessity, before traveling around 60 round trip miles to correct.
Thanks a lot for your replies.
 
What type of wire is in the ground?

If they only need a TT30 receptacle why not change the existing receptacle and replace the breaker with a 30 amp.
 
If it's a 3 wire from the 2p 50a GFI breaker to the receptacle, and, it's a 4 wire receptacle, then, the camper is not using the equipment ground as a neutral return path.

The camper would simply have no EGC connection and no ground fault return path at all.

The neutral and the equipment ground are separated in the camper panel, and, should be kept separate from the load side of the 2p 50 all the way to the camper.

If the neutral and the ground actually were jumpered together in the receptacle, or in the camper, the 50a GFI would have never set in the first place.

Jap>
 
sparkync said:
They are using a 50 to 30 amp adapter, that reduces the voltage to 120 volts instead of 240 volts by using only 1 leg of the power supply.
Click to expand...
So as Curt said, if the camper only needs a TT30 amp receptacle the cable is fine. As far as the terminations just splice #10 to the 6
 
Problem #1: This is a single rental spot, an individual is renting out. Other campers may be using this same set up that possibly may need a 50 amp. plug

Problem #2: This is a 50 amp outlet box
that would have to be completely changed out to get a TT30R outlet to work

Problem #3: The way I see it, without changing the underground wire, I would still have to use a Single pole Breaker, and use the other existing " hot" leg that is there now, as an insulated neutral.
So far looks like my first idea is going to be best, unless the one that owns the spot wants to pull out the existing UF cable, and reinstall a 4 wire like it should have been done to start with.
 
sparkync said:
Problem #1: This is a single rental spot, an individual is renting out. Other campers may be using this same set up that possibly may need a 50 amp. plug

Problem #2: This is a 50 amp outlet box
that would have to be completely changed out to get a TT30R outlet to work

Problem #3: The way I see it, without changing the underground wire, I would still have to use a Single pole Breaker, and use the other existing " hot" leg that is there now, as an insulated neutral.
So far looks like my first idea is going to be best, unless the one that owns the spot wants to pull out the existing UF cable, and reinstall a 4 wire like it should have been done to start with.
Click to expand...
The problem is, a lot of campers with 50 amp receptacles have energy management systems that will detect the same leg feeding both hots, and reduce the loads because it thinks a 20 or 30 amp dogbone is being used. Which usually means it will not run both A/C’s at the same time, and will alternate them.
 
sparkync said:
Problem #1: This is a single rental spot, an individual is renting out. Other campers may be using this same set up that possibly may need a 50 amp. plug

Problem #2: This is a 50 amp outlet box
that would have to be completely changed out to get a TT30R outlet to work

Problem #3: The way I see it, without changing the underground wire, I would still have to use a Single pole Breaker, and use the other existing " hot" leg that is there now, as an insulated neutral.
So far looks like my first idea is going to be best, unless the one that owns the spot wants to pull out the existing UF cable, and reinstall a 4 wire like it should have been done to start with.
Click to expand...
# 1 Since this is a rental lot why was it wired for a TT30? What may be needed in the future is not an NEC issue.
# 2 The TT30 will fit in the same box / enclosure and even if it didn't mounting a new box would probably be easier and cheaper than replacing a cable.
# 3 Of course you would use a single pole breaker, the TT30 is a 125 V receptacle. the black would be the hot the white the neutral and the bare is the EGC.
 
roger said:
# 1 Since this is a rental lot why was it wired for a TT30? What may be needed in the future is not an NEC issue.
# 2 The TT30 will fit in the same box / enclosure and even if it didn't mounting a new box would probably be easier and cheaper than replacing a cable.
# 3 Of course you would use a single pole breaker, the TT30 is a 125 V receptacle. the black would be the hot the white the neutral and the bare is the EGC.
Click to expand...
No, it was not wired for a TT30R. It was wired For a 50 amp 4 wire plug, but without the 4th wire. The person that rented the space bought a 50 to 30 amp adapter for it. And as far as the TT30R fitting into the same enclosure and the same hole that the 50 smp 4 wire plug is in, I'd have to check on that. Just by looks when I was there, sure don't look it. But thanks anyway for all the replies. I'm waiting on the lot owner to determine what he wants me to do for now. 👍
 
Whoever owns the lot would be better off letting you just use the cable that is there and this space will simply be for 30 amp RV's. Of course if he does want a proper 50 amp receptacle I would try to sell him on running a new 4 wire 50 amp set up and leave the existing for a TT30R. This would give him both setups for future rentals.
 
Problem #4,
Since there is evidently no EGC connected from the receptacle back to the panel feeding it, the GFI that was removed may have actually been sensing a fault in the camper.

Jap>
 
I would hazard a guess and say that the site was originally a 30A and someone changed the receptacle to a 50A and didn't worry about lack of an EGC.
I would do as mentioned and change the receptacle to a 30A, and change the breaker to a single pole 30A.
Then splice on #10 to the #6 to fit the terminals.
Explain that to the site owner and tell him it would be cheaper that running new conductors.
 
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