Can a 200A Breaker Be a Service Disconnect

Pinnie said:
I see. So Info note is saying if the equipment say “service disconnect only” or something similar not to use it. I gotcha thank you.
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That means you cannot use it as as an EM disconnect, not service equipment. You can use it as the service disconnect.
 
infinity said:
You cannot use something marked suitable for use only as service equipment as the EM disconnect (not service equipment) because the EM is not service equipment.
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Maybe some terminology issues here? Isn't everything line side of service disconnect bonded to the grounded conductor and need to be rated suitable for use as service equipment meaning is capable of having the grounded conductor bonded. Suitable only for use as service equipment basically means the grounded conductor is bonded and not easily unbonded like removing a simple bonding screw or link. The only problem I see is if it is already labeled "service disconnect". But at same time I see nothing wrong with placing the Emergency Disconnect label over the service disconnect label other than NEC kind of overlooked this in their wording.

I use pump panels labeled suitable only for use as service equipment for non service applications simply because my supply house happens to give me a much better price for those than for a straight up combination starter. They never have a grounded conductor (unless it would be a corner grounded delta though that is kind of rare) so I really see no issue with it other than that service disconnect label that is kind of permanently installed, it also can be covered with another label, ground off, etc.
 
kwired said:
The only problem I see is if it is already labeled "service disconnect". But at same time I see nothing wrong with placing the Emergency Disconnect label over the service disconnect label other than NEC kind of overlooked this in their wording.
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The issue is when the installation uses the disconnect as the EM Disconnect, Not Service Equipment that is not the service disconnect so it cannot be labeled as suitable for use only as the service disconnect. The only would prohibit it being used as the EM disconnect.
 
Washington Electrical said:
Inspector called out my 200A breaker at the meter main as the service disconnect, saying it can’t be an emergency disconnect because it’s an overcurrent device. He wants a non-fused switch instead. any thoughts?
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Does this meter main also have provisions for adding branch circuits to it?

If so I don't think you can have a downstream service disconnect as you could have branch circuits or feeders ahead of the "service disconnect"
 
infinity said:
The issue is when the installation uses the disconnect as the EM Disconnect, Not Service Equipment that is not the service disconnect so it cannot be labeled as suitable for use only as the service disconnect. The only would prohibit it being used as the EM disconnect.
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I get that the labeling is the major issue here. The reality is that disconnect needs to be bonded to the grounded conductor since it is ahead of the service disconnect - and it is. So the only real issue is that it comes from the factory already labeled as "service disconnect". Maybe this involves listing standards as well? IDK.

About the only thing I can recall seeing identified as suitable only for use as service equipment is meter mains and the pump panels I mentioned earlier. Yet the meter mains that I have seen since this emergency disconnect rule came about included emergency disconnect labels inside the package.
 
kwired said:
I get that the labeling is the major issue here. The reality is that disconnect needs to be bonded to the grounded conductor since it is ahead of the service disconnect - and it is. So the only real issue is that it comes from the factory already labeled as "service disconnect".
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Yes the labeling is the only issue because as you've stated the neutral gets bonded in either application. This is more useless code verbiage. They should have an exception that states that a disconnect that is suitable for use only as service equipment can still be used as the EM disconnect.
 
Washington Electrical said:
Inspector called out my 200A breaker at the meter main as the service disconnect, saying it can’t be an emergency disconnect because it’s an overcurrent device. He wants a non-fused switch instead. any thoughts?
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Big issue that came from some of this new requirement for an emergency disconnect is related to existing equipment and upgrades and the added language that became confusing. There was some language that was added that allowed for the continuation of a 3 wire (L-L-N) to an existing main distribution panel that was the service panel. This must meet some specific criteria.
Under normal conditions every panel (subpanel) after the service panel had to be 4 wire (L-L-N-G). Now as far as your particular installation What were the conditions of the installation? Was the meter main breaker listed to be a load break (or switch rated) disconnect? Most every one is but just asking. Is this a fully new installation? Might be calling out not having the 4th wire between the first overcurrent device and a feeder/distribution/branch circuit panel. Where is the GEC connected? Etc. All can influence the inspectors opinion of the installation.
 
Fred B said:
Big issue that came from some of this new requirement for an emergency disconnect is related to existing equipment and upgrades and the added language that became confusing. There was some language that was added that allowed for the continuation of a 3 wire (L-L-N) to an existing main distribution panel that was the service panel. This must meet some specific criteria.
Under normal conditions every panel (subpanel) after the service panel had to be 4 wire (L-L-N-G). Now as far as your particular installation What were the conditions of the installation? Was the meter main breaker listed to be a load break (or switch rated) disconnect? Most every one is but just asking. Is this a fully new installation? Might be calling out not having the 4th wire between the first overcurrent device and a feeder/distribution/branch circuit panel. Where is the GEC connected? Etc. All can influence the inspectors opinion of the installation.
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In an existing home with just an outside meter, we upgraded the service to 320A. The bonding was already in place in one panel, we extended the GEC to the inside panels, not to the outside disconnects.
 
Isn't it only homes with the main breaker inside that require an emergency disconnect outside?

I.E., can't an outside main disconnect, switch or breaker, also act as the emergency disconnect?
 
infinity said:
You're welcome. It's just a word game. This word soup was not in the 2020 NEC.
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It all goes away in the 2026...the 2026 simply requires that the service disconnect for one- and two-family dwelling on the exterior of the dwelling or within sight from the building.
 
infinity said:
That means you cannot use it as as an EM disconnect, not service equipment. You can use it as the service disconnect.
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That is a BS rule. They put that in because the equipment marked for use only as service equipment has the neutral bonded to the enclosure, buy since the EM disconnect is on the line side of the service equipment, you are going to bond the neutral to the enclosure where you use equipment marked "suitable for use as service equipment" as the EM disconnect.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
That is a BS rule.
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I agree and that's why I said that they should have just made an exception for equipment marked for suitable only for use as servcie equipment can be used as the EM disconnect. As you've stated the 2026 will rid us of this confusion but for many of us the 2026 may not get adopted for another 6 or 7 years.
 
Did it come with the sticker of choice.
Here is one. Look your up to see and then send to AHJ.
 

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don_resqcapt19 said:
It all goes away in the 2026...the 2026 simply requires that the service disconnect for one- and two-family dwelling on the exterior of the dwelling or within sight from the building.
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I kind of liked the emergency disconnect rule. I never used it since I haven't done a resi service in years, but I could see where you had to make changes on the service and had to pass current code at inspection, but didn't have to tear everything apart to refeed a main breaker panel on the inside of a dwelling to change the 3-wire service entrance conductors to a 4-wire feeder. You could just land it in a disconnect outside, call it an emergency disconnect, and in actual practice it does the exact same thing. If a service is damaged in a storm, and the utility wants an inspection, then this is a handy way to get the customer back up and running without having to go through the work of new cable, splitting grounds and neutrals, etc.
 
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