Can a chain link fence be energized ?

[ritelec]

Pulled up to church today and noticed someone got creative to light up a 4' high chain link fence enclosed area.
They installed 4 metal post/poles (one at each corner of the enclosed area) with a led fixture mounted on top of each post.
They took the cord of the led fixture and spliced it to an extension cord that they will plug in. (no box, looks like no wire nuts, just twisted and taped at the splice is what it looks like).
The question, if that taped splice becomes exposed and comes in contact with the metal pipe which is in contact with the metal fence, should the metal fence short the circuit since it's installed in the earth, or should the fence become energized?

I'm thinking it could do either or.

Thanks

 

[Greentagger]

It can definitely become energized if ungrounded conductor contacts metal fence.
Will not trip a breaker unless EGC contacts fence or if fixture is grouded and is in contact with fence.

 

[LarryFine]

It would basically have the same effect as an energized ground rod, complete with step potential and shock hazard.

Obtaining the power from a GFCI-protected source is a must here, in my opinion.

 

[hillbilly1]

Absolutely! I wired a convenience store many years ago, gas company wired the pumps. All I did was provide a two pole space for their equipment. They nippled out of their controller with a piece of pvc outside to a metal wireway. The guy that ran the used car lot next door (which I also wired) said they were getting shocked off the door knobs at both buildings. (Metal doors in a block walls) Checked for voltage between the doors, and earth. Almost 120 volts! Went through all of my stuff, voltage disappeared when I turned off the pump panel breaker. Found the pump company used the rigid conduit to the pumps as the equipment ground, but failed to bond the wireway to the panel. A spare circuit off a 20 amp breaker was stripped back and laying against the metal wireway. Even with 100’s of feet of rigid buried in the ground did not lower the resistance enough to trip the breaker.

 

[ptonsparky]

Ask the Preacher if one funeral is enough to justify that volunteers free work. Grrr.

 

[ritelec]

Thank you.

 

[hillbilly1]

This was a preacher that ran the used car lot! He said it put the faith of God in him when he touched the door handle! LOL!

 

[Hv&Lv]

Pulled up to church today and noticed someone got creative to light up a 4' high chain link fence enclosed area.
They installed 4 metal post/poles (one at each corner of the enclosed area) with a led fixture mounted on top of each post.
They took the cord of the led fixture and spliced it to an extension cord that they will plug in. (no box, looks like no wire nuts, just twisted and taped at the splice is what it looks like).
The question, if that taped splice becomes exposed and comes in contact with the metal pipe which is in contact with the metal fence, should the metal fence short the circuit since it's installed in the earth, or should the fence become energized?

I'm thinking it could do either or.

Thanks

Going to depend on earth resistance and type of breaker.

 

[tom baker]

Going to depend on earth resistance and type of breaker.

Not likely. Even at 25 ohms its only 4.8 amps, a 20 amp breaker won't trip at 25 amps.

 

[tom baker]

 

[LarryFine]

That's terrible!

 

[Hv&Lv]

Not likely. Even at 25 ohms its only 4.8 amps, a 20 amp breaker won't trip at 25 amps.

??
How do you know it’s not on a GFCI now?
Earth resistance could be so high an energized fence may not deliver a shock. We have had an issue like this in sandy soil. People were effectively isolated.

 

[steve66]

Ask the Preacher if one funeral is enough to justify that volunteers free work. Grrr.

It sounds like it could be the work of a "maintenance person" to me.

??
How do you know it’s not on a GFCI now?
Earth resistance could be so high an energized fence may not deliver a shock. We have had an issue like this in sandy soil. People were effectively isolated.

A GFI doesn't make it safe or code compliant. The splices should be in a box, the wiring should be in conduit, and extension cords aren't permeant wiring methods.

I think you are just referring to what might theoretically happen, but it sounds like you are saying it ok.

 

[growler]

This was a preacher that ran the used car lot! He said it put the faith of God in him when he touched the door handle! LOL!

Did he stop selling used cars and turn honest ?

 

[kwired]

??
How do you know it’s not on a GFCI now?
Earth resistance could be so high an energized fence may not deliver a shock. We have had an issue like this in sandy soil. People were effectively isolated.

I work in a lot of sandy soil areas. Sand has to be pretty dry, which it maybe can be at times at/near the surface. The more organic material or mixtures of other soil types are present the more conductive it likely is.

 

[Hv&Lv]

It sounds like it could be the work of a "maintenance person" to me.




A GFI doesn't make it safe or code compliant. The splices should be in a box, the wiring should be in conduit, and extension cords aren't permeant wiring methods.

I think you are just referring to what might theoretically happen, but it sounds like you are saying it ok.

Definitely not OK on the install.


More or less just going over differing circumstances.
If it were possible for one of our sub fences to become energized with 120V its extremely unlikely a shock would happen. There’s too much washed gravel in a sub.
As it is it’s grounded too much now for that to happne

 

[hillbilly1]

Did he stop selling used cars and turn honest ?

He had a hot looking daughter, and she’s still hot 30 years later! (She works where my wife works) LOL!

 

[ritelec]

It sounds like it could be the work of a "maintenance person" to me.
I think you are just referring to what might theoretically happen, but it sounds like you are saying it ok.

Definitely not saying it's ok.

I mentioned (texted) to him my (and your ) concerns so he suggested maybe splicing it in a plastic LB (he sent me lb pictured below) ....... .......

I suggested removing the extension cord and plug he added and install a wp male plug on the existing fixture cord and plug them in with a grounding extension cord.

So he then adds that he wanted them temporary on the post (pole) so he could make the fixtures portable and move them around.

Then he mentions the fixtures originally came with factory sealed male plugs on the cords.... smh

He started texting me back reasons why and his intentions and covid and ....

I wrote him with my suggestion and in the wording used the word "electrocution". Hopefully he gets it.

Thanks gents

 

[ritelec]

sorry for bringing up this old post but opened my eyes this morning calling myself a boob.

LL not LB...

OK I feel better, as you were.

 

[Hv&Lv]

sorry for bringing up this old post but opened my eyes this morning calling myself a boob.

LL not LB...

OK I feel better, as you were.

Now you really think someone here would call that out...