Hello, I am new to the forum. I'm not a tech but a project mgr/estimator. I have been told that according to NEC code, a LV tech cannot install conduit more than 5'. If the conduit will be longer than 5' it must be installed by an electrician. The state of MN follows NEC, however, a state elec. inspector said he has never heard of this rule. Can anybody clarify? I spent some time online and couldn't find it. The next question would be, can we remove empty conduit? A customer is asking us. Thanks in advance.
Can a low voltage tech install conduit?
- Thread starter tnestel
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
The NEC does not have the word electrician in it. The NEC has nothing to do with licenses, permits or inspections or who can do what.
All of those rules are made locally.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
and many of the "rules" are not really rules as they have not been made in accordance with state mandated ways of making such rules. often they are just what local inspectors have decided, regardless of whether they have any authority under state law to make such a determination (and they don't).
having said that, I am not aware of any locales that prohibit demolition of old conduits by unlicensed people. there may be some but I am not aware of any. once it is taken out of service a conduit is not part of the electrical installation anymore.
as for running conduit, if LV guys are licensed it should not be real hard to find out what exactly that licensing allows.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Depends. If the old conduits are still connected to enclosures that contain live conductors then there could easily be a problem. If by "out of service" you mean not connected to any live conductors/completely abandoned, then yes.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
The op asked this "The next question would be, can we remove empty conduit? ".
If it really is empty there would presumably not be any live conductors to worry about. Unless it was still attached to some box that had live conductors in it.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Which is usually the case.
In my area we will be hired to do 'make safe' which amounts to disconnecting the area to be demolished from sources of power, fire alarm systems etc. If some conduits or cables in the space have to stay in place we paint or flag them. Once that is done the demolition contractors handle it.
It could be a union rule if you happen to be a union LV contractor.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Yep.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
And they still get demoed. :lol:
- Location
- Massachusetts
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
Like was mentioned, this is local/state rules. The better question is "do you need an electrical permit for your work?". If not, and many states do no require electricians to install comm cable, then your LV guys can *probably* run ENT.
Keep in mind that most things dealing with LV, commercially anyway, are going to be governed by Life and Safety Code and Building Code (Chapters 7 and 8 of the NEC are pretty thin). If your guys do it, like we did back in the day, you need to make sure they do it right.
Most jobs we prefered the EC to run conduit, tho we did numerous hotels ourselves. If your guys dont know how to do it, have the EC do the conduit.
I would not remove empty conduit; I'm not a demo crew, and if it's metal conduit, it may still be serving as a ground path. Empty =/= not being used/abandoned.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
In what case would such an arrangement not be a violation of the code?
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
Took me a moment to understand what you were asking. The answer is I dont know, probably none, but I'm still not a demo crew. LV/LE guys generally dont remove existing conduits for any reason, but I dont see a reason why the OP's crew couldnt remove an existing conduit.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
There are areas where it is standard practice in new construction for non-electrical contractors to run pipe into which electricians will later pull wire. Again, this is not an area addressed specifically by the NEC, but the AHJ and inspectors may take a closer look at the pipe and fittings themselves since they know that the work was not done by an electrician and yet can be a critical part of the EGC network.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
My experience is they don't remove anything - ever.
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
We are required by code to remove accessible portions of abandoned chapter 8 cabling.
When I first started, we had to remove that from a 248 room hotel. Thousands of feet of 25 and 50 pair cable for the old phone and room call systems. We probably threw away 3 40 gallon trashcans full of the stuff before we realized its scrap value. After the job was done, we made more on the scrap than the labor to remove it (2008 when #2 copper was over $2/lb).
I'll admit most v/d/v work looks like hell and if "neat and workmanlike" were enforceable, a good 90% of new installations wouldnt pass an inspection.
As for us, we made it look great in part because inspectors dont look as hard at it if it looks like it was installed by someone who cared.
Back on topic, v/d/v guys imo should stick to ENT and the occasional RPVC or EMT wall sleeves for maintaining a wall's fire rating. If you can run it to TIA/EIA specs, all the better.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Not really, some folks want that to be the code but you really can't make people throw away what is theirs.
The rule says remove it or mark it.
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
with tongue firmly in cheek, based on the LV technicians i've seen,
no, they can't install pipe. it's painful to watch.
sometimes even less than 5' is painful. the worst is box offsets.
i can't even speak of it without weeping.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
- Status