Can anyone tell me anything about these breakers?

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gadfly56 said:
If you had the specs on the broken connector rod, how much do you think it would cost for the local machine shop to make one up for you?
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Point well made :)

But my question: are these even reliable 60 years latter. A BF at 4.16kv is not something I want to gamble with.
 
What is weird is I only see 3 primary stabs (poles) sticking out the top on each breaker!
Their should be 6 (3 line & 3 load)
Are these grounding trucks to ground the bus during maintenance??
 
ATSman said:
What is weird is I only see 3 primary stabs (poles) sticking out the top on each breaker!
Their should be 6 (3 line & 3 load)
Are these grounding trucks to ground the bus during maintenance??
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Thats what was pulled out of the breaker cubicles. These have motors and DC connectors.
 
gadfly56 said:
Gear this large is likely to be serviced/repaired at well below replacement cost.
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A good point. Assuming you can get replacement parts of course.

A thought.
In this country, and probably there too, many industrial plants have closed or had kit replaced. There are companies who trade in the equipment removed and sometimes they have available hard to find or obsolete parts. We have gone down that route a couple of times for kit that was built in the 1940s.
 
I agree with ATSman....these are not breakers. They must be for grounding. I worked nuclear plants back in the late 70's and Magneblast 4160 breakers were what ran most of the MV motors. They had 6 stabs. DC connectors were for the elevator motors and coils. Control power was 125VDC on most. They connected when the breaker was rolled in. Jumper connectors were used to operate them outside of the enclosure for maintenance. There are breakers for sale on Ebay for less than $2000.
 
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meternerd said:
I agree with ATSman....these are not breakers. They must be for grounding. I worked nuclear plants back in the late 70's and Magneblast 4160 breakers were what ran most of the MV motors. They had 6 stabs. DC connectors were for the elevator motors and coils. Control power was 125VDC on most. They connected when the breaker was rolled in. Jumper connectors were used to operate them outside of the enclosure for maintenance. There are breakers for sale on Ebay for less than $2000.
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Is it possible that the 4, 5, and 6th stabs were removed during disassembly? I know a few shields were taken off of these.
 
mbrooke said:
Rack out 4160 volt switch gear breakers made by GE. Few questions:


1) What does the current interrupting? (oil, SF6, air, ect)

2) What is the approximate age of these breakers? The gear they came out of is at least 40 years old.

3) How much would it cost to rebuild and refurbish these breakers- assuming its doable or economical?

4) Do they make new or after market replacements that will fit the gear- or is it better to just purchase new gear altogether?


Any additional info about these welcome. ;)
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1) Air, those are original GE Magneblasts
2) I would guess the 1950's
3) Very doable, I have 12 in my shop right now being remanufactured, price varies a lot depending on what parts need replacement (Those pole are probably bad) and if they want to do upgrades (There are 43 of them). Figure $8k to start
4)There are several roll in replacement options, I probably have a few hundred roll in VCB's from different OEM's plus we manufacture new replacements for these. Weak link of that gear is the cell bottles, that can be an expensive fix, but we do it all the time.
 
zog said:
1) Air, those are original GE Magneblasts
2) I would guess the 1950's
3) Very doable, I have 12 in my shop right now being remanufactured, price varies a lot depending on what parts need replacement (Those pole are probably bad) and if they want to do upgrades (There are 43 of them). Figure $8k to start
4)There are several roll in replacement options, I probably have a few hundred roll in VCB's from different OEM's plus we manufacture new replacements for these. Weak link of that gear is the cell bottles, that can be an expensive fix, but we do it all the time.
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If you two work out a deal, do jraef and I get a small referral fee?:)

Say a dozen or so Krispy Kreme donuts.:happyyes:
 
zog said:
1) Air, those are original GE Magneblasts
2) I would guess the 1950's
3) Very doable, I have 12 in my shop right now being remanufactured, price varies a lot depending on what parts need replacement (Those pole are probably bad) and if they want to do upgrades (There are 43 of them). Figure $8k to start
4)There are several roll in replacement options, I probably have a few hundred roll in VCB's from different OEM's plus we manufacture new replacements for these. Weak link of that gear is the cell bottles, that can be an expensive fix, but we do it all the time.
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Much thanks!

How often do such breakers need testing or overhaul? I don't think these were touched for several decades beyond general maintenance.
 
Need further info (closeup pics and nameplate info) to determine is they are breakers or ground trucks.
Even if they are only ground trucks, I'm pretty sure the breakers are in the same condition.
As Zog pointed out we do not know the condition of the bottles (pole finger clusters in cell) and if the porcelain insulators are cracked and need to be replaced (shutdowns, parts, labor...........big $$ !)
My guess for the failures would be dirt and dried grease/ lubricants, rust/ corrosion in the bearings/ linkages/etc. of the operating mechanism. Looks like outdoor gear, are the space heaters working in the cells/ enclosure? Are there leaks in the enclosure that would bring in excess moisture.
As you said it has been decades since proper maintenance has been performed. Is the money saved less than the replacement cost of the line-up? This all has to be evaluated to determine if it is doable.
Pay me a little now (PM service) or pay me a lot later (replacement) is our motto!
 
Revised
sorry for the confusion, had problems editing.......

Need further info (closeup pics and nameplate info) to determine is they are breakers or ground trucks.
Even if they are only ground trucks, I'm pretty sure the breakers are in the same condition.
As Zog pointed out we do not know the condition of the bottles (pole finger clusters in cell) and if the porcelain insulators are cracked and need to be replaced (shutdowns, parts, labor...........big $$ !) This is why I recommended a site survey by a qualified testing co.
My guess for the failures would be dirt and dried grease/ lubricants, rust/ corrosion in the bearings/ linkages/etc. of the operating mechanism. Looks like outdoor gear, are the space heaters working in the cells/ enclosure? Are there leaks in the enclosure that would bring in excess moisture.
As you said it has been decades since proper maintenance has been performed. Is the money saved less than the replacement cost of the line-up? This all has to be evaluated to determine if it is doable.
Pay me a little now (PM service) or pay me a lot later (replacement) is our motto!

To answer your question, TELCO policy in CA for PM (NETA) is every 3 to 5 yrs depending on environment ( most of there equipment is indoors.)
Different PM intervals are available from other industry standards or organizations.
 
gadfly56 said:
If you had the specs on the broken connector rod, how much do you think it would cost for the local machine shop to make one up for you?
Click to expand...

You can't just make parts, if you did you would have to go through all the ANSI certification testing all over again.

I have a huge stock of parts for these. We work on them everyday.
 
mbrooke said:
Much thanks!

How often do such breakers need testing or overhaul? I don't think these were touched for several decades beyond general maintenance.
Click to expand...

Should be tested every few years (How often depends on environment and criticality) , overhaul every 10-20 years depending on # of operations, nuclear plants do overhauls every 8-10 years on these. Eventually the grease will dry out and only way to fix that is a complete overhaul.


The weak point on these is the poles, they were paper based back then and will absorb moisture, sometimes we can bake them out (I have a custom oven for these) but usually they have to be replaced with new ones that use modern insulating materials. But overall these are tanks, likely the most reliable breaker ever made, couple years ago I had the pleasure of meeting the engineer that designed these.

P.S. I looked at these on my phone last night but after a better look today I agree with ATS that these are grounding trucks.
 
zog said:
Should be tested every few years (How often depends on environment and criticality) , overhaul every 10-20 years depending on # of operations, nuclear plants do overhauls every 8-10 years on these. Eventually the grease will dry out and only way to fix that is a complete overhaul.


The weak point on these is the poles, they were paper based back then and will absorb moisture, sometimes we can bake them out (I have a custom oven for these) but usually they have to be replaced with new ones that use modern insulating materials. But overall these are tanks, likely the most reliable breaker ever made, couple years ago I had the pleasure of meeting the engineer that designed these.

P.S. I looked at these on my phone last night but after a better look today I agree with ATS that these are grounding trucks.
Click to expand...

This is all great info.
Thanks Zog!
 
These are GE Magna blast that use puffers to aid extinguishing the arc. The have asbestos arc chutes with coils inside that set up a magnetic loop to oppose the arc. (Hence manga blast). The ones I worked on were used to start a 13.8 GE hydrogen synchronous condenser at Ontario Hydro in Toronto. I believe they were around 2000amp but my memory is vague. They are solenoid operated and ours were 250vdc. They rack in vertical buy cranking tool.
You could try contacting Hydro One surplus to see if they have any to sell.


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